Book 4 - Page 197

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Book 4 - Page 197
Comic - Book 4 - Page 197

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Lipkin wrote:
Windscion wrote:
Alkimodon wrote:
...Charlie also took the opportunity to mindrape and soulrape Jillian. Destroying her personality and seemingly destroying part of her soul or Fate.

Nope, not what happened. Charlie targetted and killed her Jester.
The psychobitch holier-than-thou HEALER tore Jillian's mind to shreds. In the name of good. (Well, in the name of FIXING her personality.)

People are ignoring the point I was making when I said destroying the Jester wasn't part of the deal.

Charlie took the opportunity to destroy the Jester, a part of Jillian's mind. This wasn't what he was hired to do, but he was able to do because of the leniency of the contract. Destroying the Jester wasn't needed to remove Jillian's addiction. Saying that Jillian's mindrape was entirely at Betsy's hands is flat out incorrect.


Entirely? No. But Jillian had misgivings about that part of the deal, and Betsy reassured her.

Charlie may have taken advantage of the loophole he wrote into the contract, but Betsy was the one who betrayed Jillian.

As for what the Jester is, we were told that.

Quote:
Come on, Warlord! No, the idea of the warlord. The champion. The fighter. It filled her mind. It took a shape.

A surprising shape.

“Trap!” shouted the bald jester. “You fell for it! Get out, get out!”

The little fat clown was back. In the flower dreams, he was impotent. Here in her headspace, he wielded a warhammer and was smashing bugs on everything.


The Jester is everything Jillian considers a Warlord to be, the ideal that she is trying to live up to. Her aspirational self.

Ask yourself where you want to be, who you want to be in five years, and then imagine that answer was cut out of you, with nothing to replace it. Your hopes and dreams and goals left hollow because the thing driving you to achieve them is gone.

That's what I think that Charlie took from Jillian, and why she was such easy prey for Wanda from that point on.
Windscion wrote:
Aaaaah. Got it.
Jack collapses because Mistress/Sister Wanda croaked!

It is plausible that his collapse is linked to Wanda getting buried under the rocks. But whether this surge of emotion is caused by her croaking, or by Jack losing his connection to her, is unclear. It is possible such a connection could be severed upon her being incapacitated. She need not necessarily be dead.

Though, if it were losing the connection, I would have expected the word 'loss' rather than 'doom and grief'.

Lazuul wrote:
For those who think Jack's collapse is linked to Wanda, please correct me if I'm wrong, we don't have evidence the decrypted have any psychic or magic connection to Wanda much beyond that of a ruler. Seeing through a decrypted's eyes reportedly requires some thinkamancy. Additionally, Charlie's archons don't seem to have any knowledge of when Charlie goes into a bad condition, why would decrypted for Wanda?

We know there is a String that connectes decrypted units to the Arkenpliers. Wanda has a connection to them, that she can use to see through the eyes of units with (natural) Thinkamancy, such as archons. Maggie has identified that string as an H-string, a Heart-string, that channels emotion. The decrypted have shown a very strong emotional connection to Wanda: love, or adoration. Just as Archons have for Charlie.

So yes, we have a fair amount of canon evidence to support the theory that Jack senses what has happened to Wanda.
Phi161803 wrote:
I know it was kinda explained back between book one and two, but how does the "time works differently across different hexes" Thing actually play out here? Wanda and Jack are in different hexes, so there's no real reason as far as I'm aware that those two events would need to be synchronized.

Also- Vinnie was planning to leave FAQ-the-city and hit the other two old FAQ-the-kingdom cities this turn. Has he already left yet? Has he arrived in one of the other two? Is he still en route? If we assume units in the field disband and units in cities don't, the time thing becomes a relevant question for him as well.

Field units disband also when the Ruler gets captured. So either Vinnie and the skanks disbanded when Bill took Caesar prisoner, or they are in a city and are still safe. Whether or not Caesar has croaked has no bearing on that situation.
If TV has fallen, Charlie has excellent leverage on GK. Two casters that cannot leave the city without flying mounts - or starting a new side and re-opening the portal.

Some people have suggested that with Skyy and the guns the GK units have a fighting chance. However, the number of bats in the city quite probably outnumbers the amount of bullets Skyy has.

I consider it likely however that Benjamin and Cheri could command the bats.

Benjamin might be quote interested in Turning to GK. A side with a 25mil treasury must attract a Moneymancer. And Cheri might turn simply for the promise of upkeep. If somehow they can ordeer the bats to turn, that would give GK a fighting chance against the dolls. And Maggie might be able to influence Maggionette in helping them counter the dolls in some way.

That seems more plausible than fighting anyone off.

Anyway, if the portal closes, Benjamin, Jack and Maggie are stuck. They cannot fly. Same goes for Bill and all the dolls. The best way out would be the portal. So yes, a 'new' side with Skyy Queen might be an option, if only to have a portal escape option.
Kaed wrote:
Mut wrote:
I have a different read on Jack's collapse; didn't spot it in the posts so far.

Caesar, wearing the magical collar, is exceedingly depressed to the point of suicide. Everything seems pointless and he feels worthless. (Best I recall, this was also true during a previous PoV update when he was wearing it.) This is pretty radically out of character for him (though, in fairness, he has really not had a good day). When freed to act, he moves to kill himself.

Jack sees this, goes to jump him -- but just as he's getting close, he too is overwhelmed by feelings of doom and grief that leave him small-i-incapacitated. This is really out of character for Jack too.

A simple explanation is that this is the (or, at least, a) magical effect that the collar has: it causes gloom and hopelessness. Caesar is wearing it and got the full whammy; Jack came into contact with him and got enough to bowl him over.



Why the heck would Charlie help make Ceasar a suicide collar while pretending this entire time, even in his own narrative viewpoint, that it's just a collar to kill him on command.

This is one of those theories out of nowhere that basically makes no sense and just ignores other plot stuff. Epileptic trees, they call these.



You wouldn't want your prisoner to be hopeless and unable to resist? It seems like a VERY charlie AND Bill sort of thing to do.
With the Jester and the Jillian thing, I am a bit confused. If Jillian has lost the bit of her which is the bit which said "You should be aiming to be a great Warlord! That means get out there and be a fighter! SMASH THINGS!", then why is her behaviour still pretty much "I don't want to be just a stupid sit-around ruler like my dumb dad, screw that, I WANNA FIGHT THINGS!"?
C_Dragon wrote:
With the Jester and the Jillian thing, I am a bit confused. If Jillian has lost the bit of her which is the bit which said "You should be aiming to be a great Warlord! That means get out there and be a fighter! SMASH THINGS!", then why is her behaviour still pretty much "I don't want to be just a stupid sit-around ruler like my dumb dad, screw that, I WANNA FIGHT THINGS!"?


Aggression couldn't be removed; it was structural and part of the moral framework.

Quote:

“Aggression‘s obvious,” said the bugs, as a honeycomb pattern lit up with the idea of everything she knew about warfare, everything she‘d ever fought. “Here. It‘s structural. If you want to take that out, you have to fill it in with something major, or the mind will collapse.”

“Hm. Conscience?”

“It‘s there,” whispered the swarm. The voice was a clicking of pincers and a rasping of cricket legs and beetle carapaces. A humming of hornet wings. “Conscience is interwoven in the aggression structure. It‘s all one framework.”


Clearly, the Jester was something other than just her aggressive tendencies.
Nimelennar wrote:
Clearly, the Jester was something other than just her aggressive tendencies.


Probably so she knew when she was making a fool of herself. :p
Actually shit. Re-reading it, Jack doesn't collide with Caeser. The decrypted might be gone. I hope not. I would be beyond devastated. Most of my favorite characters, gone.
DunkelMentat wrote:
Actually shit. Re-reading it, Jack doesn't collide with Caeser. The decrypted might be gone. I hope not. I would be beyond devastated. Most of my favorite characters, gone.

If Jack's collapse is due to Wanda's injury, incapacitation or croaking, then it demonstrates that the Decrypted don't immediately turn to dust if Wanda is taken out. So there's hope.