Book 5 - Prologue 24

Her Opposite Number

Book 5 - Prologue 24
Comic - Book 5 - Page 24

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ArbitraryNotion wrote:
How could he know he's the first Signamancer to see one? Who's narrative is this? Are we actually reading the story after everything's happened?

Also, I think we can say now that Parson is 100% not a Signamancer. :)


Signamancy is basically about communication...

Communication through art, through literature, through language. Communication of intent, and background, and history, and mutual understanding.

in order to do their jobs, Signamancers must require some sort of shared interface with each other... A spell-based dictionary they can all contribute to, a common understanding of art history, the ability to guess what a different signamancer was thinking when they created a certain book, or a certain style of dress. There must be SOMETHING. if you can't understand each other, you can't communicate, nor create new forms of communication.

Presumably, what Noah meant was that "No other Signamancer has yet done anything to add to the way our shared Casting Disipline understands these things, or communicates about these things" Which is probably functionally the same as "No other Signamancer has yet cast a spell targeting these things." That's not QUITE the same thing as "No other Signamancer has even SEEN these things yet", but it's a reasonable guess, and an understandable shortcut.

Put another way: Cast Spell: Result: Woot! I Published First!
mblong101 wrote:
People are relating "god" as somewhat equivalent to "titan" but I think the signamancy of the specific words used may be pretty important. After all, the ancient Greek gods were created through the titans, but then overthrew the titans.

In this case, I wonder if a Prometheus-type might figure in?

This is a really good point about why "god" might be a pain word. Makes me think that Charlie's implied goal of defeating Fate/the Titans might actually be doable now.

But as for Prometheus, he stole from the gods and gave it to man, so I don't think we're quire at that point yet. But if we do, I fear for Parson's liver.
Three pages in, and you are all so caught up in talking about towers that no one's mentioned that Fumo is not with Noah. Nor are any of the captives. They were still alive when Noah was within sight of the island, so what happened?

Did he leave them parked in the water while he came ashore? Did bad things happen?
Fla_Panther wrote:
Three pages in, and you are all so caught up in talking about towers that no one's mentioned that Fumo is not with Noah. Nor are any of the captives. They were still alive when Noah was within sight of the island, so what happened?

Did he leave them parked in the water while he came ashore? Did bad things happen?

He would have let them far enough away so they don't know where the city is.
Fla_Panther wrote:
Three pages in, and you are all so caught up in talking about towers that no one's mentioned that Fumo is not with Noah. Nor are any of the captives. They were still alive when Noah was within sight of the island, so what happened?

Did he leave them parked in the water while he came ashore? Did bad things happen?


Noah left them with Scott.
Dryhad wrote:
kaylasdad99 wrote:
We can’t just assume that the prologue is being presented in chronological order.

We also can’t simply assume that Noah’s own assumptions aren’t faulty, either, of course.

Fair, I suppose I should elaborate on what I was assuming. I'm not assuming the prologue is in chronological order (indeed, it already isn't, as parts of Fumo's story happened turns ago, to say nothing of the chronological placement with respect to the story proper), but I am assuming that the Temples were all awakened at roughly the same time, and that Noah had to return to shore before seeing Sugar whereas Byrne and Portia were in Generica as the change took place.

I also vaguely suspect there might be some nuance I'm missing in that line; is it just Noah's assumption, or is it something he can tell with Signamancy (or Date-a-mancy)? And does he mean seeing or Seeing with a capital S and the other Signamancers don't count because they didn't turn their caster senses on it (yet)?

Or maybe he just means that no mention of such a thing appears in any record of Signamancer lore or however they keep track of these things and I'm just overthinking it.

Well, Byrne is not a Generican unit, so he probably didn’t see it as his place to cast on the tower in its new tutelary form. Especially since he was on essentially a diplomatic mission, IIRC. It may not have occurred to Portia to cast on it, since nobody had offered a contract to do so.

It’s probably more precise and accurate to say that Noah was the first Signamancer to see a tutelary and KNOW WHAT HE WAS SEEING.

[/fanwank]
I was thinking of feeling disappointed at the term of "god" referencing the tutelaries/temples. I felt that... well, a "god" to me is just, just a lot bigger, a lot more, not merely "What you need", they're too flexible, if the leader is a saint that makes their "god" a sinner... kinda.

It was at this point that I started thinking that "demi-god" would have fit my own thinking better.

I also remember how Erfworld can be hyper-specific in it's word-choices, and deliberately uses lower-case "god", which has some implications.

But I also started thinking about the implications, it's either a single "god" with multiple faces, or it is a case of polytheism and we're about to see a war of "our god verses your god"

And then I started thinking about those systems/governments/nations/religions where the "gods" would wage war against each other, like the... oh heck, just pick ANY of the polytheistic religions of the past and you'll find SOME example of their gods fighting or at least undermining each other.

And then this happened.

Lipkin wrote:
mblong101 wrote:
People are relating "god" as somewhat equivalent to "titan" but I think the signamancy of the specific words used may be pretty important. After all, the ancient Greek gods were created through the titans, but then overthrew the titans.

In this case, I wonder if a Prometheus-type might figure in?

This is a really good point about why "god" might be a pain word. Makes me think that Charlie's implied goal of defeating Fate/the Titans might actually be doable now.

But as for Prometheus, he stole from the gods and gave it to man, so I don't think we're quite at that point yet. But if we do, I fear for Parson's liver.

Also, I fixed quire into quite... wait, my browser is red-underlining "signamancy" but not "quire"... googling it and... it's a fun little obscure word that no wonder why I've never heard of it before.

Which I felt was appropriate enough to include because we just learned a little more about how signamancy works and... well, googling this word seemed a little similar to that. To me, anyway.

Sometimes I wonder if the Titans were really just clones, slaves to the will of something else, look at them, they lose a gem and really just don't care. But if they don't care, why are they doing it?

This thought brings me to the thought of how the towers "created themselves" they were given a means to create themselves, and did so.
Well, THAT explains a lot. Quite a lot. Why Jed's calming. Temple's . . . Temple. Sheryl is so not-charlie. This is interesting. It's too bad there's no journal he can publish it in.
I think the reason Byrne and Portia didn't see it is that they aren't Master Signamancers. Noah explicitly says that that the benefit of "mastering" Signamancy is not having to wonder what something means.
I think people are reading way too much into Noah's "wow I'm the first to see this" thought.

Given the hex-relative way that time works in Erfworld, particularly with hexes that aren't in the same battlespace, there's simply no way to define whether two events happened simultaneously, or A happened before B, or B happened before A. Hell, even in our universe, we can't determine that. Welcome to relativity.