Book 3 - Page 79

It sounded like she’d cleared a few appointments for him tonight.

Book 3 - Page 79
Comic - Book 3 - Page 79
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Do we know that? All the examples I know of were because the person just wasn't skilled at what they were trying to do. Would Janis be worse then Olive at casting flower power even though they're both masters? (Olive was a master, right?)
“I am considering casting a spell which is outside of my discipline,” said Wanda after some time. “That is one reason it would be difficult.”

“How can you cast outside your discipline?” asked Jillian. Since she‘d never had casters to command, she rarely thought about them. Outside? She thought a Croakamancer was only good for Croakamancy, and basic Shockmancy.

“Any caster may try, but few do. Failure is highly probable,” said Wanda. “It wastes juice. But I have been cultivating knowledge in other disciplines for a long time. I have some facility with Dollamancy, for example, as you‘ve seen.”


It's a little ambiguous if Wanda means that it wastes juice to cast outside your discipline or it only wastes juice if you fail or have low mastery in that discipline. I think it's the former but it could be the latter.
I would put stock in the latter. My understanding, which may be baseless, is that higher degree of mastery increases juice efficiency, so it makes sense to me that not even being a novice would jack up the cost.

It also seems pointless to study outside your field if even Isaac has a chance to fizzle lookamancy just because he popped as a thinkamancer. You only have so much juice in a day, why waste it and years of study and practice if you're still going to have a 10-20% chance, which is much lower than "highly probable", of flushing it down the drain?
I think the high probability of failure is meant to apply to untrained use and not once you've attained Master level...
Highly probable to me is 70%+, so if each level of skill gives a 20% reduction that would put it in that range. I am pulling the numbers out of my rear, but I hope the gist comes across.

Edit: Embarrassing lack of 'ing' in the second sentence.
Mirage GSM wrote:
I think the high probability of failure is meant to apply to untrained use and not once you've attained Master level...


You can't Master things outside of your Class. I think it's likely the that chance of failure disappears once you reach Adept (remember Maggie mentioning that Wanda was likely an Adept at Thinkamancy back in Book 1?), but that the increased cost (whether absolute or relative to a caster in that class/discipline) might remain.
No, you can't master things outside of your class.
you can master things outside your discipline, though.
This was my argument when Drunk monk suggested it might not be worth Isaac's while to dabble in Lookamancy - which he has mastered.
And we simply don't have enough information to speculate how high the chances of failures are at different levels of proficiency.
I was only suggesting that they very likely ARE decreasing.
Yes? That's why I'm saying I think the failure and increased cost is from lack of skill, not from what a caster popped as.
Also remember that you have a chance to fail completely when you cast IN your discipline.

“What are our other choices?” asked Tommy distantly.

“I could concentrate on uncroaking more than one unit,” said Wanda, “diluting the effects, but giving us more units. Or I could attempt to mass uncroak every unit in the hex.”

Tommy looked at her sharply. “You could do that?”

She shook her head at him, very slowly. “Tommy... I-I don‘t know. I feel it might be too much for me. A disaster. I could become overwhelmed. Maybe we wouldn‘t get any units at all out of it. But if I succeeded, then the uncroaked units I create probably would not last more than a turn. Even the warlord.”


It seems novices can fail in their own discipline if they try a high-level spell. Hell, if you read on it says Wanda knew she could do better than the scout because she leveled and was more experienced.

Let me just throw out some numbers. Let's say a level 1 novice has a 90% to succeed with a low-level spell and that spell is 50% effective if it's in their discipline. ("I believe I could make him last as long as ten or twelve turns, and retain about half his levels and leadership.") A novice could try to cast an adept spell (like Wanda does here) and have a 75% success rate and the spell is 20% effective. An adept casting in their discipline would have a 95% success rate for novice spells and a 75% effective rate (level 4 is round-about where a caster becomes adept, but it's different for different people). Adept spells would have 90% success and 50% effective rate. Then masters would have a 99.9% success rate and ~100% effective rate for novice spells, 95% success and 75% effective rate for adept, and 90% success and 50% effective rate for master spells (all barring the usage of Thinkamancy assists).

Then say casting in your class carries a 5-10% success penalty depending on the person and casting out of your class carries a 15-50% success penalty, again, depending on the person. Effective rate is up in the air. I have heard that you can master other disciplines inside your class, but can't get past adept outside of it (except no one can even access retconjuration, obviously). I'm not sure who said that's how mastery works, but I assume it's from Word of Titan. Isaac is a master of Lookamancy, so I assume that his failure rate is at 5% for novice spells. I also assume that he's failures cost the same amount of juice, if not less, than what he would have used for the spell if it had worked. Mind you this is barring mastery bonuses. He has a mastery of Thinkamancy and Lookamancy while being adept in Foolamancy AND is level 11. That may improve his success rate and effective rate for ALL eyemancy spells and he has probably been a master of Thinkamancy for several levels. He's a Headmaster, a Mastermind- a Grandmaster if you will- he may have a higher success rate and effective rate than someone who just became a master.

Granted that a lot of this is speculative, but I would imagine that Isaac has bonuses piled until bonuses (a Book 1 concept). He probably has enough bonuses to negate his penalties, so I can easily see him having a 99.9% success rate at casting novice Lookamancy. I doubt effective rate goes above 100% btw. It doesn't really make sense for a Croakamancer to make a unit better in death then they were in life unless it's some kind of Frankenstein's monster kind of thing (in which case they are probably taking levels/experience from several different bodies or something and maybe duel using Shockamancy). I also say "99.9% success" because distractions can win out when casting or, well, doing anything really. Success rate is lowered if you suffered penalties during the casting, say, being tackled to the ground mid-incantation, but that's outside influences. We're not counting those here. Juice usage would also depend on mastery. Isaac may need, say, 110% amount the juice needed to cast a Lookamancy spell (compared to a master Lookamancer). The penalty would depend on if it's in your class or not and what your mastery level is. It doesn't really matter for Isaac, though. He's level 11; he can afford to waste juice. He has a lot to work with.
I have the strangest boner. I hope I'm not the only one.