Book 3 - Page 98

Wanda...?

Book 3 - Page 98
Comic - Book 3 - Page 98
Recent posts... (See full thread)
One point of note is that the loss of five cities during Faq's rampage only cost two hundred thousand and change to replace. One more croaked archon and they'll need to pay almost twice that with troops and cities. Gobwin Knob, Warchalking, Greenwashing, Orgchart, Dwagoncon, that's five and it might not be anywhere near enough for one. And if Wanda's units won't turn away from her?

Things could get odd if they have to, or can only give him part of the troops in a city and unled soldiers start killing each other.

Mirage GSM wrote:
Well, it's not like she hasn't destroyed her own side before that way. Twice. (Goodminton and FAQ) Thrice, but the third time she wanted to make her side lose.

Are you really suggesting that Wanda couldn't stop Lilith if she wanted to? She stopped her from killing Charlie, and Lilith hates HIM more than run of the mill Archons.

Truce or not, if he has a Chance to end the war with one shot, he would be stupid not to take it. And it would have worked too, if it hadn't been for that meddling (traitorous?) Croakamancer.

Charlie would have done exactly the same thing in the same circumstances.

What? Maggie hurt the side? How did she do that? If Wanda hadn't stopped maggie and Lilith GK would have won the war at this point.

Arguably that would probably be the best course of Action right now. Barring some incredible insight she has that we lack, she is too unstable mentally to be allowed to make tactical or strategical decisions on her own. If they don't want to lose the pliers as an asset, they Need some way to Keep her under control. At this point simply croaking her might be more beneficial for the side. They'd probably lose any uncroaked, but they'd get to keep all other units and cities.

Goodminton had five enemy sides in the battlespace and a lying predictamancer who shared her predictions with Olive "the great betrayer" Branch. They were doomed before she even popped and it may well have been impossible for them to survive any longer than they did. As for Faq, they were destroyed because Stanley tamed twenty odd dwagons in two turns. No plan could have survived that.

That was when she was able to communicate with Lilith via a link, that link had to be broken because of Maggie's self serving actions and Lilith is now loose with a gun in a side that horribly tortured her.

Being expedient doesn't make it right. For that matter, if, if it could have worked? They'd have sacrificed three quarters of the treasury doing it, on account of having to croak that pair of archons first. More if that one remaining archon jumped in front of him. It was madness to try.

Charlie has never, to our knowledge, broken a treaty he made. And he didn't strike at Stanley on his way home, despite the same 'no side, no fee' loop hole being available. Well, allegedly available.

She informed the thinkacult of Parson "Lord of all Hamsters" Gotti's intent to enter the magick kingdom, preventing him from entering Spacerock until Wanda had been forced to leave the hex and things were completely out of control. Pretty much everything that went wrong in Spacerock after Kingsworld can be, quite fairly, blamed on her (not that Parson should have entered the magick kingdom in the first place mind). And just now, she tried to launch an attack on Charlie, costing the side the entire treasury, three quarters of which were lost before there was any possibilty of taking a potshot at the Overlord. I would add that in light of recent events, I'm inclined to call forcing Stanley to make Parson "Olive Branch Mk II" Gotti chief warlord to be another insanely bad decision, it cost them badly at Spacerock and is the ultimate cause of this debacle, that has cost Gobwin Knob it's treasury. This wouldn't have happened with Ansom, Ossomer or Sylvia as chief.

Good luck fighting the decrypted soldiers that are filling Gobwin Knob's garrisons... and if you think Gobwin Knob has it bad now, watch them try taking her on and see why her enemies fear her so. Fate is the only thing that might save them. And how would they survive without her now they've lost most of the treasury? It would have been madness five minutes ago, but it would be suicide now.

ManaCaster wrote:
Whispri wrote:

No. Never. War has rules, laws, conventions. Weapons that are too terrible. Things that are beyond the pale. Like, for example, committing murder under a flag of truce as Parson has done many times. Shame on him. Nothing but shame.

And torturing a prisoner into braindeath isn't a warcrime?

Of course it is (by our World's standards, if not by Erf's), but that doesn't excuse Parson's crimes in any way, shape or form.

Lipkin wrote:
If Lilith had taken the shot, the worst that could have happened is Fate would cause the gun to misfire. And then Lilith would have been croaked by the remaining Archon, and GK would get 5mil.

The Deal of a Lifetime still binds Wanda because the recent treaty only nullified deals with GK, and Wanda was not a part of GK at the time.

The worst that could have happened is they'd be charged half a mil for every shot she fired at him. Or half a mil for every archon who desperately threw herself in front of him as Lilith impotently unloaded at him (and archon after archon would do that), until every unit in Gobwin Knob became a servant of Charlie.

Yeah but... why not demand that the deal of a life time be nullified as part of the price? Bit of a head scratcher that one.

Thecommander236 wrote:
victor227 wrote:
Thecommander236 wrote:
You know what I just thought of. If Wanda didn't want Charlie to be attacked by Lilith, why the hell did she agree to free Lilith? I'm more confused now than an hour ago.

Wanda did seem awfully fired up when Maggie got in there, in a very "This belongs to me, get out" way. Perhaps that's just it though. She got caught up in the heat of the moment and wound up being used by Maggie via the link to free Lilith rather than simply asserting her dominance.

Which kind of makes her look like a jealous fuck with no sense of what repercussions her selfish actions cause. My pity for her is going to bottom out soon unless she has a good explanation. If I was Parson, I would be very inclined to strangle her in the next 5 pages and I'm not a very violent person.

No, it makes her look like she had a good plan for saving Lilith from durance vile that Maggie catastrophically booped up with her selfish actions, that were compounded by Parson's thoughtless and callous decision to authorise breaching the treaty.
Whispri wrote:

Charlie has never, to our knowledge, broken a treaty he made. And he didn't strike at Stanley on his way home, despite the same 'no side, no fee' loop hole being available. Well, allegedly available.

It wasn't technically a treaty, but his betrayal of King Posbrake fits the spirit of what Parson is doing here.

Whispri wrote:

ManaCaster wrote:
Whispri wrote:

No. Never. War has rules, laws, conventions. Weapons that are too terrible. Things that are beyond the pale. Like, for example, committing murder under a flag of truce as Parson has done many times. Shame on him. Nothing but shame.

And torturing a prisoner into braindeath isn't a warcrime?

Of course it is (by our World's standards, if not by Erf's), but that doesn't excuse Parson's crimes in any way, shape or form.

Nothing excuses what Parson did to Ansom, but as to Charlie, he pretty heavily implied he was planning to use Lilith's connection to Wanda to go after her next and Parson considered that a risk. It's looking pretty clear Charlie left a mental loophole in the contract on purpose.

Whispri wrote:

No, it makes her look like she had a good plan for saving Lilith from durance vile that Maggie catastrophically booped up with her selfish actions, that were compounded by Parson's thoughtless and callous decision to authorise breaching the treaty.

I take it you think Wanda's actions were motivated by honoring a treaty and doing the good and honorable thing? We still don't know, but I personally think she was motivated by Fate.
ManaCaster wrote:
Wanda broke the g-string enforcing fugitive/prisoner status with her Arkentool, causing her to be repatriated in a non-standard fashion.
Ah, ty. One of those things that makes sense when you read the forums :D
Dark Shadow wrote:
0beron wrote:
It's worth noting however that this was the result of Ace AND Cubbins working together, and using components that it appears Ace had already partially completed. So a lone Dollamancer probably could only manage 1 a turn.

Don't forget that really, the only Erflings we've really seen use their casters in an innovative and/or effective way have been Stanely, with the Eyemancer link, Banhammer, keeping his cities veiled, and Charlie, with the Kingworld link. (I might be forgetting some, though.) So Jetstone is not the most reliable judge of effectiveness. There may be ways to boost production, such as by Fabricate troops, but we don't know.
That well may be, but that's not what I was commenting on. I was simply pointing out, mechanically, what a Dollamancer is capable of. Innovation =/= efficiency, using a caster creatively still doesn't change how much Juice they have and how much Juice it takes to do things. Innovation may be variable, but efficiency is a fixed value determined by the game rules.
0beron wrote:
That well may be, but that's not what I was commenting on. I was simply pointing out, mechanically, what a Dollamancer is capable of. Innovation =/= efficiency, using a caster creatively still doesn't change how much Juice they have and how much Juice it takes to do things. Innovation may be variable, but efficiency is a fixed value determined by the game rules.


Ah, okay. I wasn't getting what you were saying. Now I am. The veil of confusion is lifted from my sight. :D
This page terrified me. I just had to say that.
0beron wrote:
deadlast wrote:
I don't recall the rules for transferring money from one treasury to another. Any reason that wouldn't work?
There don't appear to be any yet, at least not clearly explained ones.
Book 2: Slately specifically needed Don to send him a Gem, rather than just transferring money.
Book 0: Overlord Firebaugh was able to create an agreement with their 2 "allies" that caused a transfer of money, yet he didn't use a Signamancer or anything magical to do so.

It's obvious that Signamancy agreements allow for a transfer of funds. But without that tool, the rules seem inconsistent.


You know, thinking on more ways for charlie to "Game" the system, Its possible that the gems created by Moneymancers such as the one created by the Don could be considered an asset and not actually part of the treasury. We also know of the "Rands" currency for caster upkeep in the magic kingdom. Soo atleast in theory its possible for Charlie to reduce his treasury (which for all purposes seems to be like a bank account more than a vault somewhere with a ton of coin and gems) by converting it into easily liquidate assets such as gems from moneymancers or other items that could easily be liquidated back into treasury or traded as if currency for the things he needs.

Ofcourse such things wouldn't be without risk, as Gems would be physical and need to be stored in a secure place to prevent them from being easily plundered (not that charlie has an issue with that). However the concept doesn't change, treasury goes up, buy more gems/assets that have no upkeep and can be sold off at little to no loss, treasury goes down, sell them back to keep yourself funded.
0beron wrote:
I'm thinking that the whole thing was a trap...

That is unthinkable - or at least extremely unlikely - for several reasons:
First and foremost, if we know something about Charlie it is that he is extremely paranoid. He'd never willingly enter the same room as an enemy unit that he expected to become hostile - especially since he has an open debt to fate, so he wouldn't trust any Kind of precaution he could take.
Secondly he is secretive. Other rulers might not mind exposing secrets for the chance of making a lot of money, but Charlie has always gone to great lengths to protect any information about himself. If this was a trap he basically offered up a lot of information without even knowing for sure if Lilith was going to start killing units.
Thirdly he had no way of knowing that Wanda had a way of regaining control of Lilith, and fourthly he had to assume that if Wanda were going to regain control, she would not do anything to ruin her side.
So the only way Charlie could have planned that as a trap would be if he planned it together with Wanda - Now that's a possibility I won't rule out completely as it would provide an explanation for Wanda's actions.

***

Further quotes not by Oberon
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In the meantime, instead of having Lilith rampage, have her send back a visual thinkagram to give Parson all kinds of intel about CC's capital.

Would be an option if their thinkamancer wasn't incapacitated at the moment.
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I think this is more of Maggie taking the full backlash onto herself because of Parson's reaction to what happened to Misty. Since she now loves Parson, she'd never want to face that reaction again.

It's more likely that Maggie took all the backlash, because Wanda forcibly cut her off from the link.
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I don't think we have any solid evidence that Charlie is protected by dittomancy.

Well for that Charlie would have had to hire a Dittomancer and allow them access to his body. I can't see Charlie doing that ever.
Also I can't see any Dittomancers of the neccessary caliber agreeing to having invasive mind surgery done to them after a Job...
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Goodminton had five enemy sides in the battlespace and a lying predictamancer who shared her predictions with Olive "the great betrayer" Branch.

If she had turned to Haffaton voluntarily, Haffaton might not have become an enemy - at least not right away.
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Being expedient doesn't make it right. For that matter, if, if it could have worked? They'd have sacrificed three quarters of the treasury doing it, on account of having to croak that pair of archons first. More if that one remaining archon jumped in front of him. It was madness to try.

So what? Ending Charlie - and with him the whole side - would have been easily worth it. Plus there would have been the chance to recapture the then neutral city of Charlescomm to regain the treasury.
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And just now, she tried to launch an attack on Charlie, costing the side the entire treasury,

At this point I'm seriously not certain whether or not you are just trolling :?
Mirage, The first thing you quoted was indeed me, but the rest of your quotes (which lack a name so thus imply they also came from me) came from someone else.
She is a GK unit because of the linkup between Wanda and Maggie. Like they did before with Ansom, they freed her and returned her to GK through a Thinkmancy/Croakmancy link. They got around the normal rules with a clever trick. But now with Wanda breaking the link with Maggie, Wanda has no way to control Lilith and she will attack until she gets leadership or she is destroyed.

I still don't know why Wanda saved Charlie. UNLESS she is still compelled by her former agreement with Charlie and CAN'T harm him or allow someone else to harm him in her presence. Otherwise, she is off the reservation and needs to be corralled pronto.