Book 3 - Page 57

And isn't it a pity?

Book 3 - Page 57
Comic - Book 3 - Page 57
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OPSfox wrote:
On another note,

I have always been annoyed by the fact that going to erfworlds homepage does not present me with the most recent comic like other webcomices, rather it gives this news feed that I must click through. I understand the reasoning behind this, it doubles my exposure to ads by forcing me to visit two pages when I only care about one, but I am not going to ever click those ads so it is just a bother. Now though to read the comic, I have to go through the newsfeed to be exposed to ads, watch a 12 second image asking for money that I do not have to give, to finally get to a comic page covered in more ads.

I cant help but think of this adage in response to erfworld website design,

Pumping a dry well will get you nothing, no matter how hard you pump.

I always found webcomic sites that show me the latest comicstrip on the homepage to be rather presumptious. How dare! they assume that I want to see the latest comic? - What if there are spoilers in it?
Brother Mirtillo wrote:
Squall83 wrote:
I wonder if Sylvia's Carnymancy deal was the same as the one Charlie did to himself in order to avoid dying from Heroine buds. Maybe Charlie had made that deal with Jojo, beacuse he needed data on this very special spell, just to see how far its protection goes. He must have had mixed feelings about her turning to GK, because she gave GK a nasty advantage, but she also provided more data to him by living and dying twice (which is probably why Jojo asks Parson about her).

...I cannot believe I never put that idea together. This makes all the sense.

I'd already guessed that the buy-back spells were similar, maybe even the exact same, but I was never sure if it was Jojo or Charlie who cast the spell for Sylvia, and if it was Charlie, I definitely did not guess why he would've done it. I suppose I missed this cause-and-effect idea because the comic with Jojo's trade got published earlier than the comic with Charlie's backstory. But Charlie's buy-back happened earlier, and there's no way he wouldn't have been reminded of it when he talked to a fellow Carnymancer about buying back someone else's life.

So if that's it, then it means Charlie used some high-cost, high-power magic to unleash a walking firebomb into the world just to see what would happen and -- more importantly -- how it could save his own life. That's entirely in character; I endorse that theory completely.

Charlie is one stone-cold researcher. I don't know whether I want to see him release fewer or more of his ideas into Erfworld.

Squall83 wrote:
And it looks like the only way to overcome that spell is an untargeted attack with a wide range, just like the "Protection from XYZ" ability in Magic the Gathering, e.g. Protection from white doesn't save a creature from a Wrath of God card.

Not sure I buy this one, though. She survived against a hefty dose of gravity -- mocking it, even. I'd say gravity is about as wide range a force as a mortal can get.

I always figured she was immune to every death except fire, with an option on decryption tweaking her brain to desire fire. (We never quite got an explanation between Stanley and Wanda about why Sylvia was so reckless.) I'd call it more like "Protection from targeting and non-targeting white, green, blue, and black," if there is such a thing.

In other words: hey titans carnys are broken nerf plz

Thanks, I kinda accidently came up with the idea because I was trying to find out where Charlie was defined as a Carnymancer, so I re-read his Wikipedia article and came across the part where it said that he escaped death by heroine buds somehow (still didn't find what I was looking for though), so both his and Sylvia's cheat were in my mind then.

Gravity is a good point, but in Erfworld the rules for crashing down differ from our world, i.e. afair you can either die, be incapacitated or nothing happens and each of these things have a ~33% chance of happening. So maybe it's not about targeted/untargeted after all, but more about inevitability and I thought about untargeted, because normally an attack with an area of effect is much more difficult to evade than a targeted one. So maybe that's why Charlie has only one enemy worth fighting against, because Fate has proven to be 100% inevitable so far.

Oh and protection from non-targeting stuff does not exist as such in MTG, simply because Protection is defined as not protecting against untargeted stuff. Creatures can get other forms of protection though, e.g. becoming indestructible (which means the "only" things you can do to them is weaken, sacrifice, return to owner's hand and remove from game (maybe other things)).
Somebody pointed this out already but I didn't see anyone acknowledge it, so I figured I'd repeat this.

Roger was never an Unaroyal unit, they just had him hired on contract during Book 1.

The confusion is understandable, since this info comes from the Great Minds profiles, which were originally an exclusive reward but have since become public, via only the wiki, so few people know they exist.
Anomynous 167 wrote:

I always found webcomic sites that show me the latest comicstrip on the homepage to be rather presumptious. How dare! they assume that I want to see the latest comic? - What if there are spoilers in it?


Personally, I like the fact that Erfworld presents me with a rundown of the latest updates, from which I can navigate to the earliest I haven't seen. It's one thing that Erfworld gets more right than its peers, which as you point out, just assume that you've already seen all previous updates.

I hate the "thinkagram" advertising. I turned off my adblock exception for Erfworld in response to them. Anything invasive (sound playing, a timed "message" I can't skip, a video starting up without me asking it to, etc) usually prompts me to make sure that only the specific content I want to see gets from a particular website to my screen. But I see that at least part of the problem (the damn thing showing up constantly) has been rectified.

Now I'll just have to see whether the presence of a thinkagram each time I read a new update is going to annoy me enough that I'll just give up reading altogether. It'll be a shame if it does, since I'm aiming to put some money aside and buy at least the first three books for my graphic novel collection (shipping internationally, plus my household bills gobbling up most of my money, make this an expensive proposition, but I want to support Erfworld as it stands, and I like the story enough to want the printed material. I did the same with Order of the Stick, and I'll probably want to do the same to the next series that really pulls me in). But if I get frustrated by the updates being hidden behind a pesterwall, I'll end up simply dropping out of Erfworld's readership entirely. There are only so many small and pointless annoyances I'll make room for in my life, and where I have a choice about it, I'm much more likely to choose not to expose myself to them at all.
Squall83 wrote:
Gravity is a good point, but in Erfworld the rules for crashing down differ from our world, i.e. afair you can either die, be incapacitated or nothing happens and each of these things have a ~33% chance of happening. So maybe it's not about targeted/untargeted after all, but more about inevitability and I thought about untargeted, because normally an attack with an area of effect is much more difficult to evade than a targeted one. So maybe that's why Charlie has only one enemy worth fighting against, because Fate has proven to be 100% inevitable so far.

We know that there are three possible outcomes, and that they're unpredictable, but we do not know that there are even odds for each. It's fully possible that 80% of all falls are disables, or 50% are death, or that it's a function of height in a way we don't understand. All we know is that there are three possibilities, and no matter how high you fall from, any one of those three is always possible.

In reality I don't think we've ever seen a fall from a plot-irrelevant character, and it's pretty obvious IMO that Rob doesn't roll dice to see the result of an action then dutifully copy it down in the comic.
twhitt wrote:
...it's pretty obvious IMO that Rob doesn't roll dice to see the result of an action then dutifully copy it down in the comic.


That... sounds... interesting. I think I'd actually enjoy reading a story written in that way. Or at least, the odds are good that I would.
totalnerduk wrote:
twhitt wrote:
...it's pretty obvious IMO that Rob doesn't roll dice to see the result of an action then dutifully copy it down in the comic.


That... sounds... interesting. I think I'd actually enjoy reading a story written in that way. Or at least, the odds are good that I would.

That sounds like it'd be "Twitch Plays Erfworld."

If that's your cup of chocolate, then have at it. I'll stick to the current version.
Brother Mirtillo wrote:
totalnerduk wrote:
twhitt wrote:
...it's pretty obvious IMO that Rob doesn't roll dice to see the result of an action then dutifully copy it down in the comic.


That... sounds... interesting. I think I'd actually enjoy reading a story written in that way. Or at least, the odds are good that I would.

That sounds like it'd be "Twitch Plays Erfworld."


Okay, now you've made it sound awful and irritating. I'd envisioned it more as Rob rolling to determine the outcome of certain critical choices but keeping the plot loosely to an overall pre-established framework, and limited to the length of a short story. I just thought the idea of letting fate decide the path to the end of the story was a pretty Erf-y thing.

I'll go back to my corner again, and sit facing the wall.
There's a reason no great work of literature has EVER been written employing dice in that way...
totalnerduk wrote:
Okay, now you've made it sound awful and irritating. I'd envisioned it more as Rob rolling to determine the outcome of certain critical choices but keeping the plot loosely to an overall pre-established framework, and limited to the length of a short story. I just thought the idea of letting fate decide the path to the end of the story was a pretty Erf-y thing.

I could've phrased my previous post a bit more fairly. The dice-rolling idea could work, but only for certain types of stories.

If this was a tabletop RPG, then the "pre-established framework" you mentioned would be a great storyboard, and dice rolls would only add to the fun. I didn't even think about that until this morning. (I've never played one of those, though I've watched my old dorm-mates play, and I've read many webcomics about them.)

But I'm pretty sure that wouldn't count here. From my mish-mosh of tabletop RPG histories, nobody expects those to play out entirely in any one person's control. If everyone goes in willing to have fun with surprises, than having something that's a surprise to everyone (such as a roll of dice) only adds to the fun.

In comics like this, the story is under control. (Possibly very blatant control, depending on how meta-powerful you think the "Titans" are, but that's another discussion.) It's a kind of a "great power = great responsibility" thing. Rob has the power to tell one story, so I expect him to tell that story. And where you have a person calling the shots, you have that person's values and priorities shaping the outcome. If I'm intrigued by the things they choose to tell, then I'll keep reading in the hopes of hearing more of those things -- or at least some related things. I expect that I will be surprised by good stories, but I also expect those stories' author chose these things to happen for reasons. Death by chance is frustrating. Death by recklessness or by ambush is dramatic.

To sum up from Fate-a-mancer Firebaugh herself: "Luck would matter only if the shot didn't." In this place, even the surprises have a specific hand behind them, and the more something matters, the more it will be determined in advance. It doesn't have to be obvious; in fact, a good Foolamancer -- er, I mean author -- will be able to hide those reasons until it's time for them to bear fruit. But they will be there, and they'll tell deeper stories about the characters than any cast page ever could convey.