Book 3 - Page 40

Book 3 - Page 40
Comic - Book 3 - Page 40
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So aside from Jillian smiling at an heir that can fly with an archer special, and pretending for th moment that archery knives is the same as archery bow, what's the awesome benefit of the combo of flying and archery?

1. For stack purposes, it's not as good as being on a mount (1 unit counting as 1 as opposed to rider and mount counting as one for stack bonus purposes).

2. Can fly and shoot down at people, obviously really good.

3. Can attack fliers when on the ground or the air, that's really good.

4. Can get altitude and shoot at city wall defenders and/or into the city (I think). That's good, though they're a target while in the air in front of a city wall, which ain't great.

5. ? Surely there's something awesome I'm missing.
Smart Cuttlefish wrote:
Lipkin wrote:
Charlie betrayed Digdoug's side. Basically decided to eat the smuckers reprisal because he had more to gain otherwise.


Which of course is the benefit of mostly telling the truth/not betraying people 9/10. Makes it easier to get away with it that occasional 1 time, when it's worth it.

Though I'd thought he'd mostly followed the letter of the contract that time round, and then straight away took a new contract against Homekey when his contract with Homekey concluded. I probably need to read it again.


And this is in keeping with Charlie's claims and actions during Book 1.


Parson, as intriguing as I find this offer, I'm afraid I'm going to have to decline it.
For now, anyway.
Switching sides in the middle of this or any conflict would damage my reputation too much.
However. I'd really like to do business with you personally, sometime in the future. I'm looking forward to it, okay?


Then, after being released from his contract with Jetstone in anticipation of a new contract with
Transylvito (Book 1 - Page 99), he takes the opportunity to take Parson's offer after all:

Anyway, a new opportunity has presented itself. Let's talk some business.
I made a deal with Charlie.
He's bowing out.
Jetstone released him, and he made Transylvito an offer they couldn't accept.
Red wrote:
Smart Cuttlefish wrote:
Lipkin wrote:
Charlie betrayed Digdoug's side. Basically decided to eat the smuckers reprisal because he had more to gain otherwise.


Which of course is the benefit of mostly telling the truth/not betraying people 9/10. Makes it easier to get away with it that occasional 1 time, when it's worth it.

Though I'd thought he'd mostly followed the letter of the contract that time round, and then straight away took a new contract against Homekey when his contract with Homekey concluded. I probably need to read it again.


And this is in keeping with Charlie's claims and actions during Book 1.


Parson, as intriguing as I find this offer, I'm afraid I'm going to have to decline it.
For now, anyway.
Switching sides in the middle of this or any conflict would damage my reputation too much.
However. I'd really like to do business with you personally, sometime in the future. I'm looking forward to it, okay?


Then, after being released from his contract with Jetstone in anticipation of a new contract with
Transylvito (Book 1 - Page 99), he takes the opportunity to take Parson's offer after all:

Anyway, a new opportunity has presented itself. Let's talk some business.
I made a deal with Charlie.
He's bowing out.
Jetstone released him, and he made Transylvito an offer they couldn't accept.

He didn't technically switch sides in that case. He simply agreed to stop fighting for them for a short time. He didn't actually sign contract with Gobwin Knob and backstab the Royals.
ManaCaster wrote:
He didn't technically switch sides in that case. He simply agreed to stop fighting for them for a short time. He didn't actually sign contract with Gobwin Knob and backstab the Royals.

He might not have allied with Gobwin Knob and had his Archons attack the RCC, though I suspect for a sufficiently unaffordable price he might have. He was however released from Jetstone on the understanding (that nobody seemed to get in a specific agreement) that he would ally with Transylvito. He then made an agreement with Parson that seemingly traded Charlie not allying with Transylvito and not attacking Stanley for the calculations from Parson. Charlie did still offer Transylvito a price that they were unlikely to pay, but had they accepted I think he would have forgone the calculations and made the attack on Stanley as originally planned.

Instead Charlie left Stanley alone as agreed and brought a sufficient number of Archons to Gobwin Knob to take the city itself and tried to strong arm Parson into a personal surrender. I think Charlie was bluffing, and wouldn't have attacked on his own initiative there, in front of Ansom and the RCC. He did wait until Ansom needed help and then offered him an outrageous contract to aid in attacking Gobwin Knob and to capture Parson.

Charlie seems to consider contracts atomically, and when one is complete he will take the best offer on what to do next in light of his interests, which are generally financially motivated. I don't think any of his dealings in Book 1 involved direct lying, nor do I see a lie borne out of his policy by his dealings with Homekey.
OneHugeTuck wrote:
So aside from Jillian smiling at an heir that can fly with an archer special, and pretending for th moment that archery knives is the same as archery bow, what's the awesome benefit of the combo of flying and archery?

1. For stack purposes, it's not as good as being on a mount (1 unit counting as 1 as opposed to rider and mount counting as one for stack bonus purposes).

2. Can fly and shoot down at people, obviously really good.

3. Can attack fliers when on the ground or the air, that's really good.

4. Can get altitude and shoot at city wall defenders and/or into the city (I think). That's good, though they're a target while in the air in front of a city wall, which ain't great.

5. ? Surely there's something awesome I'm missing.

5. Flying units can probably still mount, meaning that if their mount gets shot out from under them, they don't fall. Ossomer did address the benefits of a mount over simply flying, as he expressed dislike of Ansom's carpet due to it not being able to take hits for you.
DVL wrote:
tgillet1 wrote:
pendell wrote:
I wager 50 Quatloos that whatever Jester thing Charlie removed from Jillian's mind exists inside Prince Albert now.


An alternative possibility is that because Jillian's jester was removed, Albert doesn't have one either, or his has been somehow affected. If Charlie knows how that works, that would be one reason to want to support and protect Jillian at great cost. I've never wagered Quatloos before, but this one could be a fun one to try out.


I'd take the Quatloo bet provided you work out the logic of your claim to me.


I'll admit it is something of a stretch since Albert was popped by FAQ, not just Jillian, and with a combination of support from both TV and Charlie. It isn't easy to tell whether Charlie actually wanted an heir to pop given Don was the primary in making that happen and there are alternative possible reasons for Charlie to want to keep Jillian around (and out of GK's hands). However, having an heir to FAQ could certainly be a big deal in terms of predictions that may exist, as we know from Book 0. So, either

1. Charlie has a prediction on this situation and figures having Albert around is either not a problem or even a good thing for him.
2. Charlie knows that Albert has no/a screwed up jester
3. Charlie may see Albert as a threat (to his cozy/powerful relationship with a more traditional side) after all and try to set things up to take Albert out.

Given those possibilities I don't feel all that confident betting a lot of Quatloos on #2. I'll go ahead and try to make an argument for it anyway and consider making a smallish bet for fun.

The jester is almost certainly some combination of a tool of Fate/voice of the titans, manifestation of loyalty, manifestation of duty. Given Charlie's statements in Book 0, I tend to believe that the jester is in all units or all fated units and is one of the major ways in which the titans/Fate ensures fate is done and all predictions are kept. If the jester is just in fated units and Albert isn't fated, this is all irrelevant, so let's assume that either Albert is fated or jesters are in all units. So, Charlie destroyed that tool in Jillian and made her more pliable to himself and less a tool of the titans.

Let's say that an heir is actually in part made by the g-strings of the ruler. The shmuckers and/or resources and turns provide the materials and numbers, but the ruler provides the subconscious guidance of the construction of the unit, and likely to all units. So, Albert may have been constructed by a mind altered from the original construction of the titans who normally can have an impact in the process through their mechanism of manipulation that was the jester in Jillian. Without that tool, another version of that tool never got created in Albert, and his personality and signamancy responded to the lack of titanic control with his anarchic bent.

How about something along the lines of 5:1 odds in my favor - my 10 Quatloos vs your 50?

An intermediary bet could be that Charlie will attempt to make contact with Albert in an attempt to influence him separately from Jillian before the end of the book. Unfortunately this could happen even if the jester theory is wrong. I can try to think of some other indication or prediction too.
tgillet1 wrote:

An intermediary bet could be that Charlie will attempt to make contact with Albert in an attempt to influence him separately from Jillian before the end of the book.


Granted we've only seen a single glimpse of Albert, but from that I'd guess that he's easily persuadable that he's so awesome that he -should- be ruler. Knock his momma off for it? Too early to tell.
OneHugeTuck wrote:
tgillet1 wrote:

An intermediary bet could be that Charlie will attempt to make contact with Albert in an attempt to influence him separately from Jillian before the end of the book.


Granted we've only seen a single glimpse of Albert, but from that I'd guess that he's easily persuadable that he's so awesome that he -should- be ruler. Knock his momma off for it? Too early to tell.

Eh, I think Albert is eager to go bust some heads ("Enemies to the east and northwest. Lucky for him."), which he wouldn't be able to do as Ruler. Well, shouldn't. He should be perfectly happy to be CW for a good while. Of course, if Jillian makes him stay home while she goes out fighting, all bets are off.*

*ETA: Figure of speech. Bets are not off.
OneHugeTuck wrote:
WarFAN wrote:
OneHugeTuck wrote:
Except Parson didn't disband, so....that quote doesn't really prove that not following orders = instaband.


Stanley's surprise proves that Parson is an exception to a rule. A rule which Albert must follow. If Albert disobeys Jillian with anything but his best wishes for Jillian and/or FAQ, he will disband.


If that's the case, there could never be a coup.

And has been mentioned, it's not as simple as follow or not, because there seems to be a range of good reasons not to follow or totally follow a command, like 'good of the side' and 'didn't understand the order so it doesn't really count as disobeying'.


I was reading again Book 1 when I rediscovered this...

http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+1/94
OneHugeTuck wrote:
So aside from Jillian smiling at an heir that can fly with an archer special, and pretending for th moment that archery knives is the same as archery bow, what's the awesome benefit of the combo of flying and archery?


Need only look at jillian's last battle. First, if she could fly, she would not have fallen. Second, she would have LOVED to see one of those knives get stuck in Stanley's eye. Only a flying archer can do both those things at the same time. It's all she really needs.



Theory however... It also could just be the fact that he's an archer warlord. Regular archers are pretty useless on their own; you put them in a large group and they fire off a volley and some of their arrows will hit stuff. Warlord archers however are much more deadly; they are the kind of guys you can rely on to cripple an enemy warlord from a distance; maybe even croak them with a crit. So ANY archer warlord is great to have... having them also be a flier just makes it better. She doesn't so much love the combo in particular, just that they are both good specials for any warlord to have.


Another theory is that there might be a penalty or some downside to putting archers on flying mounts. Jillian has popped plenty of archers, but only brought stabbers with her. Its possible that maybe archers suffer a penalty while trying to fight mounted; harder to aim and what not... thus a flying unit with an archery special is the best kind of archer for a flying side. Other possibility is that you CAN mount archers, its just that a mounted archer can't take advantage of the mount's close rang attacks; hence why you use stabbers instead