Book 3 - Page 307

Oh, I could crown you

Book 3 - Page 307
Comic - Book 3 - Page 307
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kiyote wrote:


We do know that experience in your magic discipline leads to increases in your level number. Sizemore gained 2 levels in the battle for Gobwin Knob, and one level from city rebuilding (same paragraph we find out about Master Classes of casters). Likewise, we know that warlords can increase level from physical action, training, and, according to Janis, their relationships with the units under their command. There is additional emphasis on actual action and unique experiences over training, though training seems to help effectiveness in action.

All of this is identical to how experience is gained in Stupidworld, it's just we know the underlying numbers in Erfworld. Your boss goes through a difficult project where he learns new tricks? His level (and leadership) goes up. Doesn't learn anything? He doesn't level and his leadership doesn't go up.

Honestly, Erfworld's concept of level seems to be identical to Stupidworld's concept of "effectiveness". Higher levels reflect higher degrees of effectiveness.

So yeah, Skyy is significantly more effective than she was before, it's just not the numbers that made her that way. She became more effective, so the numbers were updated to reflect that.



With all due respect, I don't agree with this take. Consider that when Tondelayo leveled, She got the dollamancy special

https://wiki.erfworld.com/Hvs.tCF_263

She didn't do anything to learn about it, she went up to level 8 and *poof* she had it, and the attendant knowledge and abilities. It didn't reflect her getting more effective at Dollamancy in a continuing process of development. like a person studying a subject or learning a skill. She wasn't expecting it, and she was disappointed at first with it. She had expected and hoped for Leadership. In fact, the activities she was engaged in leading up to her gaining that level consisted of leading battles ! That's like taking a course in Russian literature and learning auto repair from it !

Or consider that a unit may be merely "promoted" to heavy. Or to being a field unit from garrison. One minute, you have certain physical attributes, then someone makes a decision, some shmuckers are spent, and there is an instant and profound change in your physical attributes and abilities.

To me, this indicates that Erfworld units are able to, and generally do, gain skills, knowledge, and other abilities in a very different way from us, and that it is game-like and quantized in a way that it is not for human beings in the real world. I do agree that they can gain knowledge and experience in the way we do as well, but there's no way you could become a better soldier in the span of one minute by just mowing down a single group of enemies with a machine gun, even though Skyy just did. There's no way a single sword stroke against a helpless enemy could make you a stronger warrior, but that's what happened when Sylvia executed Ossomer.

Obviously, Ansom, and Jillian, and characters like them have life experience that has bearing on their effectiveness, as you describe above. And there are units that are higher level whose lack of practical experience, or biases make them less effective than their stat and ability profile might indicate. But I don't believe that the numbers that apply to Erf units are emergent phenomenon. I think they're real, discrete, and quantifiable.

Again, I want to stress all due respect, if I seem like I'm trying to start an internet fight, I'm not, it's just this is an interesting area of discussion to me.
kaylasdad99 wrote:
Menas wrote:
As a reader, the only thing better in this 'day' than seeing Caesar rescued would be seeing Bill and Vanna both summarily executed, with Caesar and Ben finally knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt who the true 'bad guy' in this game is, and how important it is to trust Parson and co. implicitly in the pursuit of taking him out (once they know Parson is alive again).

If Caesar gets rescued, he's never going to let this one go. He's the kind of guy that can hold a grudge.

P.S. I hope Bill's mishap involved some Molls taking out a bunch of bats with a gun/guns and costing Charlie a crapton of $$$.
Sorry, but the only way for that to happen is if Bill fabricates some guns using the needle-pikestaffs his molls are holding. These guns would not be self-specialing types, and furthermore they wouldn't have any ammo (that's a Dirtamancy device). While that would fit with Bill's rueful admission that he doesn't understand guns, the only way for those molls to take out a bunch of bats would be if they use the guns to club them out of the air.

Actually, Charlie had considered slipping guns into the MK under veil, and sending them through the TV portal via Jojo. He could still do this. I don't think he will, but he could.

kaylasdad99 wrote:
What Bill said he was going to do (after Charlie left Channel 7)* was that he was going to ambush Skyy and Cheri (one presumes with an overwhelming force of molls). His non-understanding of guns led to those molls being wiped out. I admit that I join you in your hope that these engagements found a way of costing Charlie Shmuckers (although I see no sign of damage to Skyy or to Cheri in the final art. Maybe a few bats bought it , back around the corner).

Possible, but Skyy said she had 5 bats scouting for her, and there are 5 bats in that final panel.
kaylasdad99 wrote:
*The fact that Bill's one-sided argument (in which he talked himself into carrying out the ambush) made it into the Temple Mindstream transcript is, I think, suggestive. Suggestive of the possibility that, had she had more experience and understanding of Charlie's methods, Shirley might have had the tools to monitor Bill's activity, understand its disruptive potential, and bring it to Charlie's attention.

That would definitely make Shirley, "the smot one" as Marie would say. Of course it could be that Bill's call was "on hold," in his particular channel but not "muted." I think Charlie has the capability to record calls, etc., when he's tied up elsewhere, but it's late and I'm not going back through the archives to look for it. :)
We will have to see what happens, but here is my theory going forward.
Parson needs time with all his people Spacerock to learn what all has happened without him. I don't expect anything there until next turn, could be a long while. Skyy reaches the portal room, or the outside of it, drawing Bill's attention away from Ceaser leaving him "ungaurded", and he immediately breaks free. I suspect Bill is now without doll support, since bats are scouts and don't auto engage, they could have gotten pay. At some point mixed in will be an update about the negotiations with the TV temple, which were going in Shirley's favor until TV temple notices the sudden change of negotiating power.

Unfortunately, guessing who's perspective is next is worse than the shell game.
Skyy's current level, who's turn it is, and the unilateralness of the treaty. These are all questions answered by this update.

But the question, most important of all, that we learnt the answer to is that Bill really is the comic relief!
(And Charlie's gonna wish he had killed the comic relief. These characters are always more harm then they're worth)

edit: Face it, there were many of you doubting Bill's comic failings (given how many folk keep clamouring for his death)
The TV tower may know it has a Big-Think kipi-ed portal, even if Bill and Caesar don't. If Bill takes Caesar through the portal to escape, Caesar may survive. It can suggest that other TV units then go through and make an ambush, if they have the 'it's Only Fair' amount of Move left.
Metallicat wrote:
The Unlurked wrote:
Shirley: How many Dollers will an Appletini cost you?

Charlie: I should never have taught you about puns.


As for the symbolism discussion, Skyy taking the crown back may foreshadow that Caesar will still pop the Royal but after making someone else heir first. He may justify it, Duty-wise, with something like "a reduction in production turns". It's also possible having the same noble title as Caesar may foreshadow Skyy being made heir, justified by her being the highest level, best-armed warlord in the capital.


Caesar hasn't had much time time to get used to being rich, and wasn't expecting an attack in his capital. It would make sense to appoint an heir as soon as he is free and secure. Even though one is being popped, they gave money to burn so it won't be against Duty to use some to safeguard the side.

Only real question is who to make temporary heir. The contract means Charlie isn't able to immediately attack. An assassination is still possible, but Caesar isn't going to be so easy to hit a second time. An heir in a different place would be safer. Vinnie would be a good choice, but he is far from home with very light forces.
I got the impression appointing an heir requires that unit to kneel in front of the Ruler, so Caesar would be limited to people in the same hex. Sort of like how the Ruler has to sit on the capital's throne to relocate the capital. We've only seen heirs assigned twice in the comic: once with Stanley and King Saline, once with Tremmenis and King Slately. Otherwise I'd have thrown Vinnie in the running myself.

Citizen Alan wrote:
I still say Caesar would be foolish to allow the production of an Heir who is an unholy synthesis of Don, Vanna and Charlie.
Ain't that the truth? The only counterarguments I can think of is it'd end TV's tradition of being a Royal side and that all the turns that went towards popping a fairly good unit would be wasted. Plus the heir would probably come out as an incredible fight promoter with those genes.
The Unlurked wrote:
Metallicat wrote:
The Unlurked wrote:
Shirley: How many Dollers will an Appletini cost you?

Charlie: I should never have taught you about puns.


As for the symbolism discussion, Skyy taking the crown back may foreshadow that Caesar will still pop the Royal but after making someone else heir first. He may justify it, Duty-wise, with something like "a reduction in production turns". It's also possible having the same noble title as Caesar may foreshadow Skyy being made heir, justified by her being the highest level, best-armed warlord in the capital.


Caesar hasn't had much time time to get used to being rich, and wasn't expecting an attack in his capital. It would make sense to appoint an heir as soon as he is free and secure. Even though one is being popped, they gave money to burn so it won't be against Duty to use some to safeguard the side.

Only real question is who to make temporary heir. The contract means Charlie isn't able to immediately attack. An assassination is still possible, but Caesar isn't going to be so easy to hit a second time. An heir in a different place would be safer. Vinnie would be a good choice, but he is far from home with very light forces.
I got the impression appointing an heir requires that unit to kneel in front of the Ruler, so Caesar would be limited to people in the same hex. Sort of like how the Ruler has to sit on the capital's throne to relocate the capital. We've only seen heirs assigned twice in the comic: once with Stanley and King Saline, once with Tremmenis and King Slately. Otherwise I'd have thrown Vinnie in the running myself.

I figured that the way royal promote their units as more of a formality thing. A unit becoming an heir designate is kinda a big thing for the side. It is worth noting that Wanda was promoted to being heir of Goodminton whilst she was far away on the field, shortly before her ruler croaked.

Another reason Royals tend to make heir designates in person, I'd imagine, is that it'd be pretty embarrassing to accidently declare the horse your son is riding to be heir designate instead of your son, and a seemingly waste of good money. Having line of sight of the person you are promoting helps avoid such errors.
Quote:
Citizen Alan wrote:
I still say Caesar would be foolish to allow the production of an Heir who is an unholy synthesis of Don, Vanna and Charlie.
Ain't that the truth? The only counterarguments I can think of is it'd end TV's tradition of being a Royal side and that all the turns that went towards popping a fairly good unit would be wasted. Plus the heir would probably come out as an incredible fight promoter with those genes.

Not having a royal heir would also cause Transilvito's turnamancer to lose what little loyalty she has for the side and go rogue. It'd be a darn shame to lose a caster just for not popping a mostly done heir.
strange7person wrote:
SomeGuy411 wrote:
The Unlurked wrote:
Shirley: How many Dollers will an Appletini cost you?

Charlie: I should never have taught you about puns.



Taken further, just one, but it's his last Doller

Bet your bottom Doller, you'll lose the :charlie: blues in :tv: Chicago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoKn7vkSMBc

...and if the way he prepares to receive discipline is any indication, Bill is DEFINITELY a Bottom Doller...
Anomynous 167 wrote:
The Unlurked wrote:
Metallicat wrote:


Caesar hasn't had much time time to get used to being rich, and wasn't expecting an attack in his capital. It would make sense to appoint an heir as soon as he is free and secure. Even though one is being popped, they gave money to burn so it won't be against Duty to use some to safeguard the side.

Only real question is who to make temporary heir. The contract means Charlie isn't able to immediately attack. An assassination is still possible, but Caesar isn't going to be so easy to hit a second time. An heir in a different place would be safer. Vinnie would be a good choice, but he is far from home with very light forces.
I got the impression appointing an heir requires that unit to kneel in front of the Ruler, so Caesar would be limited to people in the same hex. Sort of like how the Ruler has to sit on the capital's throne to relocate the capital. We've only seen heirs assigned twice in the comic: once with Stanley and King Saline, once with Tremmenis and King Slately. Otherwise I'd have thrown Vinnie in the running myself.

I figured that the way royal promote their units as more of a formality thing. A unit becoming an heir designate is kinda a big thing for the side. It is worth noting that Wanda was promoted to being heir of Goodminton whilst she was far away on the field, shortly before her ruler croaked.

Another reason Royals tend to make heir designates in person, I'd imagine, is that it'd be pretty embarrassing to accidently declare the horse your son is riding to be heir designate instead of your son, and a seemingly waste of good money. Having line of sight of the person you are promoting helps avoid such errors.
Quote:
Citizen Alan wrote:
I still say Caesar would be foolish to allow the production of an Heir who is an unholy synthesis of Don, Vanna and Charlie.
Ain't that the truth? The only counterarguments I can think of is it'd end TV's tradition of being a Royal side and that all the turns that went towards popping a fairly good unit would be wasted. Plus the heir would probably come out as an incredible fight promoter with those genes.

Not having a royal heir would also cause Transilvito's turnamancer to lose what little loyalty she has for the side and go rogue. It'd be a darn shame to lose a caster just for not popping a mostly done heir.


I’m rooting for the Turnamancer to get disbanded the moment Caesar is repatriated, myself, so I don’t think of her Loyalty as a particularly precious asset.
Just realized this update also explains why Bunny had to cut Don's string to kill him. He was protected from Shockmancy by the crown.