Book 3 - Page 302

Can't spell "Charlie" without "lie"

Book 3 - Page 302
Comic - Book 3 - Page 302
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Dolla Bill wrote:
He said they attacked all the Great Minds.

I'm not sure how Charlie expects this one to stick, to be honest. It seems extremely sloppy.

Don't think it would've been hard to notice that Parson didn't seem in any way antagonistic to Headmaster Roger; they seemed fairly cordial from the first thinkagram leading up to the link. I'm fairly certain they established it was Charlie who attacked the GMs. And even if 'they' meant Gobwin Knob the side, then why get rid of Parson who doesn't appear to be aware of the plan to kill the Great Minds?

Moreover, I can't remember why Roger decided to do this now. Wouldn't it be better to wait for Parson to get rid of Charlie first so his goal doesn't go against any dictums (as per his discipline) that would contradict it? He could still do the self sacrifice/martyrdom croakamancy thing at that point. It just seems so highly inefficient to not wait until the Arkendish is secured and Parson is - in a fate sense - vulnerable, now that I think about it.

Maybe the pace is getting to me and I'm forgetting a few things from a couple months ago that would've given sense to these.
keybounce wrote:

What's next? Taking advantage of speculative execution, such as people asking "what if we do this", and reading the branch table to figure out what other people are planning?


What if that is exactly what the Bracer does?

What if the Bracer is a predictamancy/mathamancy artifact, which could be used to do fortell the past?

Such as Benjamin being able to tell, whether a certain magic school was cast on him.

If you ask for future, it gives a percentil, but if you ask about past, it gives 1 or 0.
Syrup Roast wrote:
Dolla Bill wrote:
He said they attacked all the Great Minds.

I'm not sure how Charlie expects this one to stick, to be honest. It seems extremely sloppy.

Don't think it would've been hard to notice that Parson didn't seem in any way antagonistic to Headmaster Roger; they seemed fairly cordial from the first thinkagram leading up to the link. I'm fairly certain they established it was Charlie who attacked the GMs. And even if 'they' meant Gobwin Knob the side, then why get rid of Parson who doesn't appear to be aware of the plan to kill the Great Minds?

Moreover, I can't remember why Roger decided to do this now. Wouldn't it be better to wait for Parson to get rid of Charlie first so his goal doesn't go against any dictums (as per his discipline) that would contradict it? He could still do the self sacrifice/martyrdom croakamancy thing at that point. It just seems so highly inefficient to not wait until the Arkendish is secured and Parson is - in a fate sense - vulnerable, now that I think about it.

Maybe the pace is getting to me and I'm forgetting a few things from a couple months ago that would've given sense to these.


The frame up for taking out the Great Minds is for the MK. TV is a disreputable traitorous treacherous side led by a Royal assassinating overlord. Benjamin is not likely to be a persuasive witness for the MK.

And that presumes that Caesar is going to have much of a chance to spread his story. Bill and Vanna can make their case, if they survive, that taking out Parson was for the good of Erfworld.

Roger has always opposed the plan to use Parson against Charlie, and blames him for bringing their conflict into the MK and taking down the Temple. Parson is the terribly dangerous lion you brought in to take down the wolf Charlie, but ends up eating your family on the way to the wolf.

Roger has a plan to take down Parson, and has successfully, he thinks, locked Charlie out of the MK and hurt him. A weak Charlie can be taken out later, but a successful Parson could end up being far more dangerous. This was helped a lot by Jojo's support, even though Roger knew he was being fed lies from Charlie. He trusts Jojo, a dangerous friendship but understandable. It was GK and Parson, not Charlie, that took out his 2nd home of Unaroyal.
Trigger Warning: TVtropes

The big problem with Erfworld right now (that I try to ignore, but I know I'm not the only one who has felt it):

Four Lines All Waiting

I see enough posts each update that are basically, "aw I wanted to see the resolution of the last update!"

Mind you I am in the camp of all of these are necessary, but yeah.
Morgaln wrote:
name lips wrote:
Morgaln wrote:

I think one major problem is that we have no idea what the story is even about. No one in the story seems to have a real plan or agenda, no direction they're trying to drive the story towards.
Well, Charlie might. But even though he's now the major antagonist for the second book in a row and we've had a number of pages from his viewpoint, we still don't understand what he actually wants and why he is doing all the things he's doing. He's got to have an endgame, but we still have no clue what it is. So all we're doing is watch Charlie do his Charlie thing for unfathomable reasons, and others reacting to those Charlie things because they happen to affect them. But we lack the bigger picture that would put all of this in perspective.

As far as we know, Charlie's death is Fated, and he's been artificially extending his life by waging all-out war on Fate. He considers his battle with Fate to be his primary objective, and since Parson was Fated to defeat him, that translated into an all-out war against Parson.

It's odd, but in Erfworld, Fate seems to be a consciousness or force that actually follows rules. It's a natural law of the universe that can be observed and studied by individuals in that universe.

When Charlie destroyed the Jester in Jillian's mind, he said it was a "Tool of the only enemy worth fighting." It is strongly hinted that this Jester was the manifestation of Fate, pushing Jillian in the directions Fate wanted her to go. Charlie considers the normal Erfly conflicts between Sides to be beneath him -- he is the only one on Erf who has declared war on one of the fundamental forces of reality. Also he seems to have accumulated the tools and power required to actually make headway in this war. He's a Carnymancer, and knows that rules can be broken.

All of his mercenary work, ruthless money-making, army of worshiping archons, technological advancement of his Tower, the rule-breaking, the hacking, all of it... is just to provide a stable foundation upon which to do his research and conduct his war.

-
Ostensibly, Parson's purpose is not only to defeat Charlie, but also to "break" Erf itself, finding and exploiting some sort of loophole or hack that allows the people of Erf to exist without constant warfare.

Honestly it seems like their motivations should be more in line than we've seen. If Parson and Charlie joined forces, they could probably defeat Fate and break Erf together. But then the story would lose its protagonist/antagonist conflict and become a happy story of everybody being friends and working together.


I'm aware of Charlie's fight against Fate. But we still don't know how he intends to wage that war. Removing Parson isn't doing anything against Fate itself, it's fighting a symptom, not the cause. As I said, Charlie must have an endgame in mind; some way to solve this problem long-term. We just don't know what that plan is, we don't even have a hint of it.
Also, waging all-out war against Parson is exactly the wrong way to go at this. Everything Charlie has done has increasingly antagonised both Parson and Goblin Knob, to the point where by now he's not just someone who's working against them, he's a major problem they need to deal with. In other words, Charlie has done everything to make sure the person fated to kill him not only wants to work against him but has no choice but to try and kill him. The much smarter thing would have been to work with GK, to make himself one of their staunchest and most useful allies. That way, not only Parson wouldn't have any incentive to work aganst Charlie, the opportunity for a lethal backstab to solve the problem would have risen sooner or later. For someone who's supposed to be this great mastermind, Charlie certainly makes some basic mistakes a quick look at the evil overlord list could have prevented...



It is so easy to point out mistakes after things go wrong. Charlie's plans are very good, and without Parson doing something Perfect Warlord ish to break the plan, they would have worked.

Book 1: GK city falls, collect Arkenpliers (Charlie could have saved Ansom but didn't want to), Wanda if she cooperates, the Bracer, and Parson himself. He spelled out the last two directly to Parson.

Pick off Stanley and the Arkenhammer too, why not?

End result, Charlie has three Arkentools and nobody even has to know. If only Parson didn't think up uncroaking a volcano...

Book 2. Ansom and Wanda are out being world conquerers. Charlie makes two plans to deal with the situation. First, the Titanic Kingworld spell, which would have ended Wanda and the Arkenpliers without Parson's plan. 2nd, Jojo and the scroll of doom.

Again, Parson finds a plan to win, but comes very close to losing first.

Book 3. Well, the making friends ship probably sailed, so Charlie continues with the almost successful Big Game trap.

That one hurt him a lot. But it paid off, since the Scroll was used as intended.

Too bad Parson had the idea which made Jed.

Charlie had reasonable expectations of winning against GK and Parson in every encounter, but something always messes it up. Now if Charlie knew in advance that Parson and Fate were going to ruin all these plans, trying a sneaker approach might have made sense. But then, Fate might have let something even worse happen.

Charlie depends greatly on limiting his trust tightly. Letting any ally get close is a terrible risk. He is much more vulnerable than he dare let on to any outsider.
Metallicat wrote:
Morgaln wrote:
I'm aware of Charlie's fight against Fate. But we still don't know how he intends to wage that war. Removing Parson isn't doing anything against Fate itself, it's fighting a symptom, not the cause. As I said, Charlie must have an endgame in mind; some way to solve this problem long-term. We just don't know what that plan is, we don't even have a hint of it.
Also, waging all-out war against Parson is exactly the wrong way to go at this. Everything Charlie has done has increasingly antagonised both Parson and Goblin Knob, to the point where by now he's not just someone who's working against them, he's a major problem they need to deal with. In other words, Charlie has done everything to make sure the person fated to kill him not only wants to work against him but has no choice but to try and kill him. The much smarter thing would have been to work with GK, to make himself one of their staunchest and most useful allies. That way, not only Parson wouldn't have any incentive to work aganst Charlie, the opportunity for a lethal backstab to solve the problem would have risen sooner or later. For someone who's supposed to be this great mastermind, Charlie certainly makes some basic mistakes a quick look at the evil overlord list could have prevented...



It is so easy to point out mistakes after things go wrong. Charlie's plans are very good, and without Parson doing something Perfect Warlord ish to break the plan, they would have worked.

Book 1: GK city falls, collect Arkenpliers (Charlie could have saved Ansom but didn't want to), Wanda if she cooperates, the Bracer, and Parson himself. He spelled out the last two directly to Parson.

Pick off Stanley and the Arkenhammer too, why not?

End result, Charlie has three Arkentools and nobody even has to know. If only Parson didn't think up uncroaking a volcano...

Book 2. Ansom and Wanda are out being world conquerers. Charlie makes two plans to deal with the situation. First, the Titanic Kingworld spell, which would have ended Wanda and the Arkenpliers without Parson's plan. 2nd, Jojo and the scroll of doom.

Again, Parson finds a plan to win, but comes very close to losing first.

Book 3. Well, the making friends ship probably sailed, so Charlie continues with the almost successful Big Game trap.

That one hurt him a lot. But it paid off, since the Scroll was used as intended.

Too bad Parson had the idea which made Jed.

Charlie had reasonable expectations of winning against GK and Parson in every encounter, but something always messes it up. Now if Charlie knew in advance that Parson and Fate were going to ruin all these plans, trying a sneaker approach might have made sense. But then, Fate might have let something even worse happen.

Charlie depends greatly on limiting his trust tightly. Letting any ally get close is a terrible risk. He is much more vulnerable than he dare let on to any outsider.

I think it's also worth noting that even leaving aside the fact that Parson is fated to kill Charlie, Parson and GK have been causing problems both personal and financial for Charlie since aforementioned uncroaking of a volcano. The idea of Toolism was such a scary force in the world that Charlie lost all of his royal side customers in his immediate area (which I imagine was where a lot of his money came from) and he went pretty far out of his way to ensure that the Battle for Spacerock went in Jetstone's favor.

Think about it. He granted Jetstone a powerful Turnamancy spell at his own expense, strong-armed Haggar into behaving, is the main reason that Jillian had as strong a queendom as she did, and offered to PAY JETSTONE on top of that for every Archon they destroyed, with a 25k bonus if they returned one to him breathing. Given how Charlie behaved in Book 1 and in the side-stories, this is LUDICROUSLY generous of him.

Everything went wrong because Jillian didn't stay to destroy the airforce. Had she done so, she still could've gone off and done everything she did to GK in book 3. Probably would've done a lot better than she did, actually, since she'd be able to keep sacking cities. And then the RCC could've also sent forces in to mop up anything Jillian missed, turning GK's steamrolling advance into a complete rout. And the entire RCC would know that Charlie saved their sorry hides, and isn't a Toolist. GK gets utterly demolished, and Charlie gets his closest customers back.

His plan to trap Parson in a burning city was plan... I think E? Plan B was to convince Jetstone to fight without parley, C was to get Parson to use the scroll, D was to get the Magic Kingdom to arrest/kill him...
Also don't forget Charlie's signamancy as Charlie Brown. Charlie Brown gets the football pulled away by Lucy at the last second, every time. Charlie gets his plans foiled by Parson & Co at the last second, every time. He's trying to fight fate and his own signamancy; that's not a fight he can win.
HalfTangible wrote:

His plan to trap Parson in a burning city was plan... I think E? Plan B was to convince Jetstone to fight without parley, C was to get Parson to use the scroll, D was to get the Magic Kingdom to arrest/kill him...


Trapping Parson in a burning city was not Charlie's plan.

The city got ignited in 2-95 and he became trapped at 2-101.

Charlie did not act between those 2 events.
Frank Crow wrote:
HalfTangible wrote:

His plan to trap Parson in a burning city was plan... I think E? Plan B was to convince Jetstone to fight without parley, C was to get Parson to use the scroll, D was to get the Magic Kingdom to arrest/kill him...


Trapping Parson in a burning city was not Charlie's plan.

The city got ignited in 2-95 and he became trapped at 2-101.

Charlie did not act between those 2 events.
Incorrect. Go back further.

He called Jojo and told him to let Parson go through before 95 (and Sylvia started her plan to burn the city down before that, http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+2/180 ) He also told King Slately to change the capital from Spacerock to Jetstone ( http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+2/179 ). He saw the fire starting through Jetstone's bat, which we know he could do ( http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+2/175 )

Sure, he didn't START the day with that plan but when the opportunity presented itself it BECAME the plan.
HalfTangible wrote:
Frank Crow wrote:
HalfTangible wrote:

His plan to trap Parson in a burning city was plan... I think E? Plan B was to convince Jetstone to fight without parley, C was to get Parson to use the scroll, D was to get the Magic Kingdom to arrest/kill him...


Trapping Parson in a burning city was not Charlie's plan.

The city got ignited in 2-95 and he became trapped at 2-101.

Charlie did not act between those 2 events.
Incorrect. Go back further.

He called Jojo and told him to let Parson go through before 95 (and Sylvia started her plan to burn the city down before that, http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+2/180 ) He also told King Slately to change the capital from Spacerock to Jetstone ( http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+2/179 ). He saw the fire starting through Jetstone's bat, which we know he could do ( http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+2/175 )

Sure, he didn't START the day with that plan but when the opportunity presented itself it BECAME the plan.


On 2/175 (Page 87) he could see the real king Slately croaking. (Although it was a TV bat, not Jetstone). And yes, he did tell Slately to change capital.

But both of this happened before Sylvia started the fire. And remember, within a tile, time flows normaly.
Even if she started the fire just after 2/180 (page 92), Jetstone themselves only noticed it at http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+2/184 (page 95). But as both JoJo and Charlie are at different tiles, I can agree that http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+2/183 (page 94), where Charlie tells JoJo is after that.

So that is the only action he had to take to follow the plan. Other things just happened. The evacuation of Spacerock was because Slately could not win win, not to make a trap.

In the end, you are right, the trapping was a plan of his. He made it happen using JoJo.