But in cube coordinates z doesn't tell the distance, z is a 3rd coordinate. you are basically conceptually pretending that each hex is a cube, like in a qbert arcade game.

Skipped a couple of pages of comments, apologies if I repeat what's said before.

1. What's to keep Jillian compliant or outright refusing to comply even though she's not a signatory? Er, what kept Jillian compliant, I should say -- looks like the pact held at least a couple of turns
2. What's also to stop Stanley from just running out and attacking again once the 30 turns are up? This seems like a temporary reprieve only to re-start the fight later.

The background of the webpage doesn't matter, it's only purpose is to look good and it's not part of the comic: maps that we have been shown in the comic have pointy end up (Klog 6:s picture also shows a coordinate system lines that are in 90 degree angle).
SNIP

Couldn't the 90 degree lines just be the folds from a paper/cardboard hex map?

It would cost two move to follow the trail to the southeast, toward home, leaving her one to hunt with. If she left the trail and cut into the wooded hexes to the south or northeast, she would have no move left for chasing game.

Excellent point. If both South and Southeast are options, then the pointy end of the hex must be East-West. This is the best evidence as I see it. Everything else I am aware of provides no context, or shows people standing all around a map...

Wait, that's not true... this page (http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%201/66) shows everyone looking at the map from the same perspective, and, from that perspective, the pointed sides are left-right. Okay, so a lil' more evidence for pointy ends being oriented EW.

Skipped a couple of pages of comments, apologies if I repeat what's said before.

1. What's to keep Jillian compliant or outright refusing to comply even though she's not a signatory? Er, what kept Jillian compliant, I should say -- looks like the pact held at least a couple of turns
2. What's also to stop Stanley from just running out and attacking again once the 30 turns are up? This seems like a temporary reprieve only to re-start the fight later.

1. I'd say Charlie has enough pull with Jillian to make her comply without having to spell it out.

2. Nothing is to stop Stanley, Charlie, or Jillian from attacking again after the truce is up. In fact, from the look of it, one of them could amass an army 7 hexes away from the other's capital on day 29, and they wouldn't be in breach of contract. The purpose of this truce was simply to keep GK from killing Jillian. In exchange for that concession to Charlescomm, Parson:

a) Gets paid back all of the damages that Jillian has done against GK recently,
b) Gets out of having to do any more calculations for Charlie on his bracer,
c) Learns how his mystery scroll works,
d) Maybe some other stuff; I didn't re-read the whole thing.

The point is, Charlie wants this temporary truce to keep Jillian alive, and Parson accepted it for the above reasons. The contract explicitly states that this is only a temporary truce, and that's exactly what it's gonna be.

Ofcourse we can't be absolutely sure about what system Erfworld is using until we see it in writing or as coordinates on a map, but we can be sure that the pointy end is up (there is no point in Rob showing us maps that are on 90 degree angle).

The pointy ends are up and down, but it's not as clear that up is north and down is south. Remember Book 0, Episode 45:

It would cost two move to follow the trail to the southeast, toward home, leaving her one to hunt with. If she left the trail and cut into the wooded hexes to the south or northeast, she would have no move left for chasing game.

It sounds like Jillian is considering which direction she will move from her current hex, and neither east nor west are on the menu.

If east and west are up and down (or down and up) on maps in Erfworld, then can we be sure that X measures left-to-right and Y measure bottom-to-top?

You know what? It seems you're right... Oh my...
I even tried to find something contradicting, but all I could dig up was this: http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%200/48 and its just filled with south, south-east and south-west.

It makes no sense that north is not up in the maps, but hey, whatcha gonna do? No map calculations for me anymore.

fuchfe97 wrote:

Spruce wrote:

Couldn't the 90 degree lines just be the folds from a paper/cardboard hex map?

3. Is this contract "secret" in any way? What's to keep the RCC from reacting negatively to this development and start wondering what's going on with Charlie vis-a-vis Jillian, or even GK?
4. (probably will see in the next pages) Does Jillian notice the dichotomy here in Charlie's attitude toward her versus actions on her behalf? After their relationship "Break", it must seem odd to Jillian that Charlie would negotiate such a contract; it would be hard to mentally "write off" the expenditure as an effort to keep her in the alliance, since the contract probably makes it look like a material loss to the sides opposed to GK.

Dang, Alzheimers. I'm pretty sure I had a longer list of questions....

But in cube coordinates z doesn't tell the distance, z is a 3rd coordinate. you are basically conceptually pretending that each hex is a cube, like in a qbert arcade game.

"An equivalent way to write this is by noting that one of the three coordinates must be the sum of the other two, then picking that one as the distance. You may prefer the â€œdivide by twoâ€ form above, or the â€œmaxâ€ form here, but they give the same result:"

I counted the X,Y position of a city compared to another city (0,0), and then counted the Z from X,Y to get the distance. If you were wondering why I got different distances than you, you calculated correctly, but chose the wrong axis from two of the results.

But you aren't using either of the equations in the quote you chose, you are just arbitrarily deciding that z is the distance when z is one of 3 axes. The longest of x y and z is going to be the distance (hence the max form).

To give an obvious example as to the issue with your calculation consider city A at 0,0 and city B at 100,-100.

so if the z tells the distance:
x=100, y=-100, z=0 (x+y=-z)
Therefore these 2 cities have a distance of 0 and are in the same hex.

But you aren't using either of the equations in the quote you chose, you are just arbitrarily deciding that z is the distance when z is one of 3 axes. The longest of x y and z is going to be the distance (hence the max form).

To give an obvious example as to the issue with your calculation consider city A at 0,0 and city B at 100,-100.

so if the z tells the distance:
x=100, y=-100, z=0 (x+y=-z)
Therefore these 2 cities have a distance of 0 and are in the same hex.

Somehow that just doesn't seem right...

OneHugeTuck wrote:

MATHFIGHT!

Indeed

The equation was basically the same as the second one, with it one just counts the Z's before counting the differences, where I counted the differences before counting the Z's...

there was just on problem:

I can't even read anymore! (or think, it seems)
For some reason I just kept reading "one of the three coordinates must be the sum of the other two" as the Z and not the max value and not even thinking about it, even tough you pointed it out. And I even quoted it back to you and blamed you for choosing the wrong axis!

Good example with the 100, -100, 0 by the way, demonstrates the max vs Z beautifully.

so if the z tells the distance:

But in cube coordinates z doesn't tell the distance, z is a 3rd coordinate. you are basically conceptually pretending that each hex is a cube, like in a qbert arcade game.

http://www.redblobgames.com/grids/hexagons/#coordinates

MATHFIGHT!

1. What's to keep Jillian compliant or outright refusing to comply even though she's not a signatory? Er, what kept Jillian compliant, I should say -- looks like the pact held at least a couple of turns

2. What's also to stop Stanley from just running out and attacking again once the 30 turns are up? This seems like a temporary reprieve only to re-start the fight later.

SNIP

Couldn't the 90 degree lines just be the folds from a paper/cardboard hex map?

It would cost two move to follow the trail to the southeast, toward home, leaving her one to hunt with. If she left the trail and cut into the wooded hexes to the south or northeast, she would have no move left for chasing game.mustbe East-West. This is the best evidence as I see it. Everything else I am aware of provides no context, or shows people standing all around a map...Wait, that's not true... this page (http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%201/66) shows everyone looking at the map from the same perspective, and, from that perspective, the pointed sides are left-right. Okay, so a lil' more evidence for pointy ends being oriented EW.

1. What's to keep Jillian compliant or outright refusing to comply even though she's not a signatory? Er, what kept Jillian compliant, I should say -- looks like the pact held at least a couple of turns

2. What's also to stop Stanley from just running out and attacking again once the 30 turns are up? This seems like a temporary reprieve only to re-start the fight later.

1. I'd say Charlie has enough pull with Jillian to make her comply without having to spell it out.

2. Nothing is to stop Stanley, Charlie, or Jillian from attacking again after the truce is up. In fact, from the look of it, one of them could amass an army 7 hexes away from the other's capital on day 29, and they wouldn't be in breach of contract. The purpose of this truce was simply to keep GK from killing Jillian. In exchange for that concession to Charlescomm, Parson:

a) Gets paid back all of the damages that Jillian has done against GK recently,

b) Gets out of having to do any more calculations for Charlie on his bracer,

c) Learns how his mystery scroll works,

d) Maybe some other stuff; I didn't re-read the whole thing.

The point is, Charlie wants this temporary truce to keep Jillian alive, and Parson accepted it for the above reasons. The contract explicitly states that this is only a temporary truce, and that's exactly what it's gonna be.

It would cost two move to follow the trail to the southeast, toward home, leaving her one to hunt with. If she left the trail and cut into the wooded hexes to the south or northeast, she would have no move left for chasing game.It sounds like Jillian is considering which direction she will move from her current hex, and neither east nor west are on the menu.

If east and west are up and down (or down and up) on maps in Erfworld, then can we be sure that X measures left-to-right and Y measure bottom-to-top?

You know what? It seems you're right... Oh my...

I even tried to find something contradicting, but all I could dig up was this: http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%200/48 and its just filled with south, south-east and south-west.

It makes no sense that north is not up in the maps, but hey, whatcha gonna do? No map calculations for me anymore.

Couldn't the 90 degree lines just be the folds from a paper/cardboard hex map?

I guess.

3. Is this contract "secret" in any way? What's to keep the RCC from reacting negatively to this development and start wondering what's going on with Charlie vis-a-vis Jillian, or even GK?

4. (probably will see in the next pages) Does Jillian notice the dichotomy here in Charlie's attitude toward her versus actions on her behalf? After their relationship "Break", it must seem odd to Jillian that Charlie would negotiate such a contract; it would be hard to mentally "write off" the expenditure as an effort to keep her in the alliance, since the contract probably makes it look like a material loss to the sides opposed to GK.

Dang, Alzheimers. I'm pretty sure I had a longer list of questions....

so if the z tells the distance:

But in cube coordinates z doesn't tell the distance, z is a 3rd coordinate. you are basically conceptually pretending that each hex is a cube, like in a qbert arcade game.

http://www.redblobgames.com/grids/hexagons/#coordinates

Check again:

http://www.redblobgames.com/grids/hexagons/#distances

"An equivalent way to write this is by noting that one of the three coordinates must be the sum of the other two, then picking that one as the distance. You may prefer the â€œ

divide by twoâ€ formabove, or theâ€œmaxâ€ formhere, but they give the same result:"I counted the X,Y position of a city compared to another city (0,0), and then counted the Z from X,Y to get the distance. If you were wondering why I got different distances than you, you calculated correctly, but chose the wrong axis from two of the results.

But you aren't using either of the equations in the quote you chose, you are just arbitrarily deciding that z is the distance when z is one of 3 axes. The longest of x y and z is going to be the distance (hence the max form).

To give an obvious example as to the issue with your calculation consider city A at 0,0 and city B at 100,-100.

so if the z tells the distance:

x=100, y=-100, z=0 (x+y=-z)

Therefore these 2 cities have a distance of 0 and are in the same hex.

Somehow that just doesn't seem right...

MATHFIGHT!

Indeed

But you aren't using either of the equations in the quote you chose, you are just arbitrarily deciding that z is the distance when z is one of 3 axes. The longest of x y and z is going to be the distance (hence the max form).

To give an obvious example as to the issue with your calculation consider city A at 0,0 and city B at 100,-100.

so if the z tells the distance:

x=100, y=-100, z=0 (x+y=-z)

Therefore these 2 cities have a distance of 0 and are in the same hex.

Somehow that just doesn't seem right...

MATHFIGHT!

Indeed

The equation was basically the same as the second one, with it one just counts the Z's before counting the differences, where I counted the differences before counting the Z's...

there was just on problem:

I can't even read anymore! (or think, it seems)

For some reason I just kept reading "one of the three coordinates must be the sum of the other two" as the Z and not the max value and not even thinking about it, even tough you pointed it out. And I even quoted it back to you and blamed you for choosing the wrong axis!

Good example with the 100, -100, 0 by the way, demonstrates the max vs Z beautifully.