Book 3 - Page 299

A tower has many stories

Book 3 - Page 299
Comic - Book 3 - Page 299
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Adept wrote:
Merilynne wrote:

Yep. Now you can be responsible for me leaving. Fare the well.

I for one hope you won't.


Ditto. I, at least, have welcomed her participation in our discussions.

167 has been hit by the One Rule banhammer before. Hopefully Merilynne won't let a single "engage to enrage" insult chase her away.
Shai hulud wrote:
It's weird how she's never pissed me off, but you and Darkstar are both on my banned list because you both act like obnoxious self absorbed trolls, who's "opinion" (aka trolling) is more important than anything else (like maintaining a functional fan community.) Just super weird. But I'm sure that it's just a coincidence. :roll:


Adept wrote:
I for one hope you won't.


Aion wrote:
Ditto. I, at least, have welcomed her participation in our discussions.

167 has been hit by the One Rule banhammer before. Hopefully Merilynne won't let a single "engage to enrage" insult chase her away.

Thanks, guys; I appreciate y'all.

Yeah, I over-reacted and I apologize to the forum for that bit of drama. I'd had a really boopy day and let a really stupid post get to me. Some days "adulting" is just hard, but I'll try to do better.

If I have anything to say to the original poster, I'll do it with a private message, the way it should have been done all along.
Shai hulud wrote:
Am I one of the only one who wanted to see his friends again?

I'm not really invested enough in them right now to care one way or the other. I know that if Rob brings them back into the storyline, it will be with good reason, but if he chooses not to, then that will be with good reason, too.

It would be nice to see some of the fans write backstories (and frontstories???) on those characters, though. Who are they, beyond being "Parson's gaming buddies?" I'd contribute some shmuckers to see that happen. :)
Merilynne wrote:
Shai hulud wrote:
Am I one of the only one who wanted to see his friends again?

I'm not really invested enough in them right now to care one way or the other. I know that if Rob brings them back into the storyline, it will be with good reason, but if he chooses not to, then that will be with good reason, too.

It would be nice to see some of the fans write backstories (and frontstories???) on those characters, though. Who are they, beyond being "Parson's gaming buddies?" I'd contribute some shmuckers to see that happen. :)


I always interpreted the relationship as a bit sadder than "buddies." The first part of the story shows us that Parson's life kind of sucks. His buddies don't really seem to respect him and we know from later in the story Parson was setting up an adversarial "meta-gaming" situation. That's kind of the opposite of what a DM is supposed to do in role playing. Obviously they dont hate each other or anything given that this is something they do for fun, but there's no sign that this friendship is based on anything other that the game night.
Skull the Troll wrote:
Merilynne wrote:
Shai hulud wrote:
Am I one of the only one who wanted to see his friends again?

I'm not really invested enough in them right now to care one way or the other. I know that if Rob brings them back into the storyline, it will be with good reason, but if he chooses not to, then that will be with good reason, too.

It would be nice to see some of the fans write backstories (and frontstories???) on those characters, though. Who are they, beyond being "Parson's gaming buddies?" I'd contribute some shmuckers to see that happen. :)


I always interpreted the relationship as a bit sadder than "buddies." The first part of the story shows us that Parson's life kind of sucks. His buddies don't really seem to respect him and we know from later in the story Parson was setting up an adversarial "meta-gaming" situation. That's kind of the opposite of what a DM is supposed to do in role playing. Obviously they dont hate each other or anything given that this is something they do for fun, but there's no sign that this friendship is based on anything other that the game night.

I agree, but the game being set up seemed to be more a homebrew wargame than an RPG. Granted wargames have explixit rules, so it's hard to see how the players were supposed to "think outside the box" and pull off a clever win against a cheating opponent.

Parson's gaming group and his own approach seems rather unusual. I've always thought of him as more of a tactical / strategic wargamer than an RPGer, though we've seen him with a pile of RPG books of course.
Adept wrote:
Skull the Troll wrote:
Merilynne wrote:

I'm not really invested enough in them right now to care one way or the other. I know that if Rob brings them back into the storyline, it will be with good reason, but if he chooses not to, then that will be with good reason, too.

It would be nice to see some of the fans write backstories (and frontstories???) on those characters, though. Who are they, beyond being "Parson's gaming buddies?" I'd contribute some shmuckers to see that happen. :)


I always interpreted the relationship as a bit sadder than "buddies." The first part of the story shows us that Parson's life kind of sucks. His buddies don't really seem to respect him and we know from later in the story Parson was setting up an adversarial "meta-gaming" situation. That's kind of the opposite of what a DM is supposed to do in role playing. Obviously they dont hate each other or anything given that this is something they do for fun, but there's no sign that this friendship is based on anything other that the game night.

I agree, but the game being set up seemed to be more a homebrew wargame than an RPG. Granted wargames have explixit rules, so it's hard to see how the players were supposed to "think outside the box" and pull off a clever win against a cheating opponent.

Parson's gaming group and his own approach seems rather unusual. I've always thought of him as more of a tactical / strategic wargamer than an RPGer, though we've seen him with a pile of RPG books of course.

Historically speaking, tabletop roleplaying games did evolve from wargames (or at the very least from people that also played wargames). (A war-game where you only play one dude? Who'd be into that). Although for this reason I never bought into World of Warcraft.

Who knows? Maybe Parson could have enforced an element of roleplay in his homebrew? Although given how meta-gamey everyone on Erf is, I kinda doubt that.
Anomynous 167 wrote:
Adept wrote:
Skull the Troll wrote:


I always interpreted the relationship as a bit sadder than "buddies." The first part of the story shows us that Parson's life kind of sucks. His buddies don't really seem to respect him and we know from later in the story Parson was setting up an adversarial "meta-gaming" situation. That's kind of the opposite of what a DM is supposed to do in role playing. Obviously they dont hate each other or anything given that this is something they do for fun, but there's no sign that this friendship is based on anything other that the game night.

I agree, but the game being set up seemed to be more a homebrew wargame than an RPG. Granted wargames have explixit rules, so it's hard to see how the players were supposed to "think outside the box" and pull off a clever win against a cheating opponent.

Parson's gaming group and his own approach seems rather unusual. I've always thought of him as more of a tactical / strategic wargamer than an RPGer, though we've seen him with a pile of RPG books of course.

Historically speaking, tabletop roleplaying games did evolve from wargames (or at the very least from people that also played wargames). (A war-game where you only play one dude? Who'd be into that). Although for this reason I never bought into World of Warcraft.

Who knows? Maybe Parson could have enforced an element of roleplay in his homebrew? Although given how meta-gamey everyone on Erf is, I kinda doubt that.


I also got the impression that his games were tactical wargames, but also with an RPG source for rules and units perhaps. Roleplaying did evolve from wargaming. While most wargames dealt with larger units, it was possible to do smaller actions and even individuals. The fantasy theme really fits in perfectly with Erfworld.

People who do fantasy wargaming have used individual mages, warlords, knights, trolls, and other special units, and the set up can get quite complex. I'd imagine that Parson's scenario is a large scale battle which would take days to resolve, tabletop wargaming being all about details and moving lots of figures around.

The rules can be extremely complex, and assuming that Parson is an honest facilitator -- which fits everything we know about him -- he wouldn't cheat or make up rules.
So, Wanda is on the way to I'm Coming for you Stanley. That's the "other plans" she's referring to. I just can't believe that Wanda would ever serve Jillian even if Jannis says she would.

If there's another plan I'm not seeing it (though I don't see much so that's actually quite probable). Since Jannis' prediction was given explicitly we're expected to be led by this, so cynical me thinks there must be something more.
Caprice wrote:
Shai hulud wrote:
Am I one of the only one who wanted to see his friends again?

It took Parson a while to come to terms with the nature of Erfworld and his place in it. I wouldn't want to watch that same journey of realization over again for his friends, and it would feel cheap if they just showed up ready to go from day one.


You're right... that would be terrible writing. But why would we have to watch it again? I've never seen any indication that Rob is that terrible of a writer. I mean he's not perfect, certainly... but there is "bad" and then there is "fan-fiction."

Most writers know instinctively not to retread the same ground in the same series. There's allusion, inference, and all sorts of other tools a writer can use to let a reader know something is happening without showing it. Even more so when it was a major plot point earlier in the same series. Why automatically assume Rob will suddenly become a fan-fiction quality storyteller the moment he goes a direction you personally aren't interested in?

This is the problem with almost all (but not all) the complaints I've seen about Erfworld in it's forums, both regarding what has been written and what people suppose might be written. Almost all of it takes the form of "I don't like it thus it must be objectively bad." And when someone questions why it's bad we get reductio ad absurdum and enough strawmen to keep Judy Gale entertained for a whole 5 minutes.

The whole "character development is bad cause it doesn't move the plot along" argument, for example. Why must nothing exist that doesn't move the plot along? Where else in all of entertainment has that been shown as a realistic expectation? Some of the best movies focus most of their scenes on non-plot elements (Saving Private Ryan, Shawshank Redemption, Forest Gump, The Godfather trilogy, etc). Even action movies like Terminator and Aliens can't manage that. Seriously go count the number of scenes in Aliens where the marines or the xenos make meaningful, lasting progress on exterminating the other group. Then count the scenes where they don't. Hell... or even just the ones where they do nothing but talk. Guess which group of scenes will number fewest by the end of the movie? Fyi, I already know the answer.

But it doesn't stop people from whining incessantly about non-plot updates when really their complaint is that they aren't getting plot updates often enough. I'd bet they wouldn't mind the ~30% non-plot updates so much if Rob was putting out a new page every day. How's that for a first world problem? "Whaaaa! I'm SO angry/angsty! This group of 3-4 people is giving me beautifully drawn and colored pages of a complex story in a detailed and unique world with rich and compelling characters but they only do so once or twice a week and that makes them terrible at their jobs. WHAAAAA!"
JadedDragoon wrote:
Spoiler: show
Caprice wrote:
Shai hulud wrote:
Am I one of the only one who wanted to see his friends again?

It took Parson a while to come to terms with the nature of Erfworld and his place in it. I wouldn't want to watch that same journey of realization over again for his friends, and it would feel cheap if they just showed up ready to go from day one.


You're right... that would be terrible writing. But why would we have to watch it again? I've never seen any indication that Rob is that terrible of a writer. I mean he's not perfect, certainly... but there is "bad" and then there is "fan-fiction."

Most writers know instinctively not to retread the same ground in the same series. There's allusion, inference, and all sorts of other tools a writer can use to let a reader know something is happening without showing it. Even more so when it was a major plot point earlier in the same series. Why automatically assume Rob will suddenly become a fan-fiction quality storyteller the moment he goes a direction you personally aren't interested in?

This is the problem with almost all (but not all) the complaints I've seen about Erfworld in it's forums, both regarding what has been written and what people suppose might be written. Almost all of it takes the form of "I don't like it thus it must be objectively bad." And when someone questions why it's bad we get reductio ad absurdum and enough strawmen to keep Judy Gale entertained for a whole 5 minutes.

The whole "character development is bad cause it doesn't move the plot along" argument, for example. Why must nothing exist that doesn't move the plot along? Where else in all of entertainment has that been shown as a realistic expectation? Some of the best movies focus most of their scenes on non-plot elements (Saving Private Ryan, Shawshank Redemption, Forest Gump, The Godfather trilogy, etc). Even action movies like Terminator and Aliens can't manage that. Seriously go count the number of scenes in Aliens where the marines or the xenos make meaningful, lasting progress on exterminating the other group. Then count the scenes where they don't. Hell... or even just the ones where they do nothing but talk. Guess which group of scenes will number fewest by the end of the movie? Fyi, I already know the answer.

But it doesn't stop people from whining incessantly about non-plot updates when really their complaint is that they aren't getting plot updates often enough. I'd bet they wouldn't mind the ~30% non-plot updates so much if Rob was putting out a new page every day. How's that for a first world problem? "Whaaaa! I'm SO angry/angsty! This group of 3-4 people is giving me beautifully drawn and colored pages of a complex story in a detailed and unique world with rich and compelling characters but they only do so once or twice a week and that makes them terrible at their jobs. WHAAAAA!"

It's posts like these that make me regret giving everyone in this thread who didn't mention me 5 schmuckers.

In hindsight it wasn't a wise investment (Ended up going broke after Sparta happened.)