Book 3 - Page 291

The tower was riveted

Book 3 - Page 291
Comic - Book 3 - Page 291
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Anomynous 167 wrote:
DukeofTuring wrote:

Anomynous 167 wrote:
[1]. You don't need to purchase the "Full Service" package to use Archons as escorts, as Ansom did back in book 1 [2], you just don't get "magic security"

This didn't click with me when I first read your post, but are you referring to the fonz getting some affection? That seemed entirely spontaneous to me, certainly no orders issued.

No, I'm referring to when Ansom hired to archons to escort Jillian, Webinar, and Webinar's level 2 girlfriend back into the infantry collumn so the three of them wouldn't be swarmed by dwagons in the meantime.
http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%201/46

I thought it was obvious since I provided you the link in the footnotes of that comment I made.


I saw the link and didn't have any idea how it was revelevent. Obvious... well, I've got something of a blindspot for puns, it went right over my head :)
Adept wrote:
Chiu ChunLing wrote:
Maybe a better term would be "objectification". Shirley doesn't object to sexuality, she is unabashedly gendered herself.

Gender is different from sexuality, let alone morals. Shirley identifying / presenting as female doesn't mean she would approve of Charlie's sexualisation of the Archons. She seems to be implying very traditional, earthly morals.
The thing is, the archons are already sexual. Hypersexual, even. Charlie doesn't make them that way, he doesn't even seem to like that they're that way. But he treats them like tools.

Sexualizing someone who shouldn't be sexualized, or sexualizing a situation that shouldn't be sexual, can be wrong, and it often overlaps with objectification. Sexualizing kids, sexualizing coworkers or subordinates, sexualizing an interaction with the staff at a shop, sexualizing a traffic stop...there are plenty of ways to sexualize that are wrong.

But the archons are already sexual. Charlie granting full service contracts and so forth doesn't make them more sexual, what it does is treat them like objects. Shirley, with her comments about tramps and hookers and bunnies and girls next door, is the one sexualizing everything more than Charlie.

But her sexualizing them, while definitely not always complimentary, treats them as people who happen to have sexuality as part of their motivations (for good or ill).

So talking about "sexualization" as the moral issue is just confusing.
I personally read Shirley's voice as a heavy Minnesota accent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAavaZqDaXE
Jade wrote:
I personally read Shirley's voice as a heavy Minnesota accent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAavaZqDaXE


An incredibly fake Minnesotan accent, naturally. No one here actually talks like that, unless they are 70 and grew up in the Iron Range. :D
Complete non-sequitur time, does anyone know the name of the mountain range that encompasses Faq, TV, and CC?
Chiu ChunLing wrote:
Complete non-sequitur time, does anyone know the name of the mountain range that encompasses Faq, TV, and CC?

The Minty Mountains, named right at the start of book 1, confirmed here http://archives.erfworld.com/Book+2/14
JadedDragoon wrote:
David Hunt wrote:
Sylvan wrote:

I mean, most people tend to think of themselves as good people. It would be easy for Charlie to try and justify his actions in the same way Shirly did, as being difficult but necessary to accomplish a "greater good" by defeating fate of whatever.


You're referring to the phrase that everyone is the hero of their own story? While there's truth in that, it doesn't mean that they think of themselves with the term "hero." More to the point, almost no one considers themselves to be evil/bad/etc. Even the worst scumbags on Earth have some story that they tell themselves whee they justify their action.


I think a more accurate version of the "everyone is the hero of their own story" maxim is no one ever sees themselves as the villain... especially the villain. Anyone who objectively acknowledges they are monsters without immediately being overcome with crushing guilt and self-loathing is either indifferent to the suffering of others or actively enjoys hurting others... in other words, a psychopath....

I mean just think of a person or a group that is a clear and obvious villain. Hitler? Stalin? The KKK? Dr Mengele? Kim Jong-il? (all low hanging fruit, but still) They all see or saw themselves as heroes doing dirty work for the greater good.

...

The Stanford Prison Experiment is a chilling window into how easy it is for otherwise average, normal people to become blind to the evil of their own actions. ...

And then there's the populace of Nazi-led Germany who collectively turned a blind eye to the rise of hatemongers and the internment of "undesirables." Slavery... apartheid and segregation... the list of times when people looked the other way and told themselves it was no big deal are legion. ...

...No one sees themselves as the villain... especially the villain.


First, let me link you "Not a Villain": http://navcomic.com/

Second, there will be plenty of people who know that something is wrong,but have no ability to do anything about it -- or rather, don't see any way for them to do anything about it. For example,if you thought that what the Republicans did in The United States with the tax bill was wrong, what can you do about it?

Third, "low hanging fruit"? Hitler? If you're going to call Hitler low hanging fruit, then you have to look at all of the other people throughout history that have blamed immigrants, have blamed small group X, have used war and military expansion as a solution to domestic problems, etc. Hitler may have been recent, but he was not the first, not the last, and possibly not even the worst.

How would you consider the people who divided up Europe and the middle east at the end of World War I along arbitrary lines without any regard for the social status of those areas just for the purpose of being able to purchase oil for tanks?
The Unlurked wrote:
Shirley and Charlie are turning out to be amazing foils for one another. The Charlescomm half of this update has been one of the stealthiest info dumps ever. It's just fun, natural dialog while Charlie unwittingly bonds with his new mom.


Imma necro this thread rather than starting a new one, to mention this nugget (CharlesNCharg speaking to Shirley U. Jest):

CHARLESCOMM wrote:
You can read the tower record on runaway Decryption when you get the chance.


What the hey? This is not only not Charlie's first rodeo, but there's already a record of a past time where the Arkenpliers (or something else capable of Decryption) were being used...which implies Attunement? And Rob just threw that into a larger text update, and I missed it and no one else commented on it?

I'm not sure whether this is Mind Blown :think: but I definitely didn't expect to find this item hiding in an older update. How in the world did CC already have a record of a past incident of 'runaway decryption' ?? Any speculation?
ripple wrote:
The Unlurked wrote:
Shirley and Charlie are turning out to be amazing foils for one another. The Charlescomm half of this update has been one of the stealthiest info dumps ever. It's just fun, natural dialog while Charlie unwittingly bonds with his new mom.


Imma necro this thread rather than starting a new one, to mention this nugget (CharlesNCharg speaking to Shirley U. Jest):

CHARLESCOMM wrote:
You can read the tower record on runaway Decryption when you get the chance.


What the hey? This is not only not Charlie's first rodeo, but there's already a record of a past time where the Arkenpliers (or something else capable of Decryption) were being used...which implies Attunement? And Rob just threw that into a larger text update, and I missed it and no one else commented on it?

I'm not sure whether this is Mind Blown :think: but I definitely didn't expect to find this item hiding in an older update. How in the world did CC already have a record of a past incident of 'runaway decryption' ?? Any speculation?


I can't read that that way. For one thing, Charlie knew the 'Pliers were in play during TBFGK. Knowing that GK was likely to recover them, then if he was aware of the Pliers ->Decryption link, he should have known immediately why his Archons were fighting for GK, but he didn't.

My guess is that Charlie is referring to the events leading up to the Assault on Jetstone, where GK attacks a city, croaks its troops, decrypts them, and keeps marching on to the next city with an even larger army requiring no more upkeep than before.

Or he's pulled a Lord Crush since then, had his Archons raid his own library (and probably those of other sides he's contracted to work against), and got really lucky in finding a previous instance of them being used. But I'm more inclined to believe that he's referring to Wanda.
Nimelennar wrote:

CHARLESCOMM wrote:
You can read the tower record on runaway Decryption when you get the chance.


ripple wrote:

What the hey? This is not only not Charlie's first rodeo, but there's already a record of a past time where the Arkenpliers (or something else capable of Decryption) were being used...which implies Attunement? [...] How in the world did CC already have a record of a past incident of 'runaway decryption' ?? Any speculation?


I can't read that that way. For one thing, Charlie knew the 'Pliers were in play during TBFGK. Knowing that GK was likely to recover them, then if he was aware of the Pliers ->Decryption link, he should have known immediately why his Archons were fighting for GK, but he didn't.

My guess is that Charlie is referring to the events leading up to the Assault on Jetstone, where GK attacks a city, croaks its troops, decrypts them, and keeps marching on to the next city with an even larger army requiring no more upkeep than before.

Or he's pulled a Lord Crush since then, had his Archons raid his own library (and probably those of other sides he's contracted to work against), and got really lucky in finding a previous instance of them being used. But I'm more inclined to believe that he's referring to Wanda.


Very well thought out - I had completely forgotten that exchange. Agreed, the "tower records" on "runaway" Decryption are new and reflect the Wanda-verse, not some older thing with a previous Attuned wielder of the Arkenpliers.

We now return you to your regularly-scheduled "wait, what happened to Bill's head...and Charlie's dish...and where are the 'pliers, and..." as we build up to BEDLAM IN ICFYS.