Book 3 - Page 233

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Book 3 - Page 233
Comic - Book 3 - Page 233
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Anomynous 167 wrote:
Albert didn't croak Brevis so he could lose to Vinny. He critically missed the dummy so he can croak Vinny.

If Fate truely did mess with Albert's rolls to kill Brevis. Then the prince is due for a win.


That is another (interesting) way of interpreting the same event. If you're right I'd split credit for the call with ya for that. :)
Anomynous 167 wrote:
Now that you mention it, the Arkenhammer does look like a judge's gavel. And gavels are the specific kind of hammer that comes to mind whenever I hear the phrase "Banhammer"
Spoiler: show
Image


Maybe the hammer allows the attuned weilder to rule out court rulings. It explains why Stanley is attuned: Not only is he a ruler, but like the proverbial tunnel snake, he rules.

Although all this talk of hammers leads me to one thought: Victor Roger Clarence shall eventually wield the Arkenhammer.

Lemons wrote:
These forums have so many memes of their own, I should start compiling a list so I can keep track.

Never change guys.

Never change.

Watch out for RVC's secret Archon powers.


Oh no, you've got it wrong. A gavel is for judges. Judges are addressed with "your Honor". Vinny is calling Ansom "yer Honor." So in the tradition of this forum, I declare this tenuous connection as absolute proof that Ansom is going to attune to the Arkenhammer.
Dystopianman wrote:
Quote:
dystopianman wrote:
Correct, as stated before, CW's have the ability to overrule the Ruler under specific circumstances. The Ruler, however, is free to use his or her Power to disband, imprison, convince, or otherwise attempt to circumvent that overruling as suits his or her Free Will.

EDIT: Another possibility, find a Warlord more sympathetic to the Ruler's point of view and promote THAT warlord to chief. Happens all the time in Stupidworld.

Quote:

Anomynous 167 wrote:
The interesting thing about this update is that it shows that even if you lose a position of authority, your orders still stick. As evidenced by how the stationary artilery had to stay put in the position that Vinny designated, even after he rebelled.

Don King really had to get Caesar to release him from his orders of not talking to Vanna. Demoting him from Chief Warlord wouldn't be sufficient, as he would still be under the effects of the orders of the one who gave them to him.


True, the Ruler, in this case would have to then order the new Chief Warlord to undo the Order of the previous Chief Warlord. A minor extra step, all things considered, but it does illustrate your point nicely that the Ruler is still automagically bound. I do agree that if a unit is automagically bound that cuts into Free Will as we understand it.

Therefore, I believe that enough counter arguments have been made on this subject to amend the theory of Agency, at least to my mind, concerning Ruler Free Will. While Rulers still do not possess unlimited Free Will as we understand due to the fact that they CAN be automagically bound in some specific circumstances, they still enjoy the highest degree of Agency and Free Will in Erfworld, compared to all other unit types. Thus, their state of being still does approach the closest state to Free Will that Stupidworlders and Realworlders would understand.

Isn't that crazy btw? That Duty compels you to follow Orders given by someone you know turned against your side? In Stupidworld, I'm not sure troops would knowingly follow orders from someone they knew turned against them. Ah the life of a game piece. The deconstruction continues.

How does a ruler's agency compare to, say, that of a barbarian warlord, or feral city-slaying monster, or unaligned caster in the MK?
Something else occurs to me. "And when he stacked up, Vinny could just about feel those nines dropping into place. His bats were gonna hit like gwiffons now."

That tells us something about how powerful gwiffons are: very. Vinny's bats--I think it's fair to assume a bat has a base attack of 1, plus a stack bonus (up to 8) plus Vinny's full bonus (+6). That would be 15. Then you add Ansom (+10) for a total of 25. No artifacts in play here, no other bonuses I know about. So a gwiffon hits at about a 25. I'm going to assume that means one gwiffon, unstacked--but I don't know that for sure. Previous calculations here: https://wiki.erfworld.com/Bonus reckon Ansom's base attack is somewhere between 10 and 25.

Albert's contingent, 1 lv 1 warlord, 2 knights and 2 gwiffs--would get a stack bonus of +5, (there are only 5 units), the knights and gwiffs would get a +1 warlord/leadership bonus, and +2 for chief warlord bonus (Duncan's a 6 and not in the hex). So the stack gets +8 except Albert only gets +7. If Vinny's off-the-cuff reckoning of gwiff power includes stack and warlord bonuses, the gwiffs would have a base attack of 18--which is still quite substantial. If not, the gwiffs in that stack would hit at 32.

And we know knights are powerful. KISS were knights, Archons are knights. But we don't know how powerful these ones are.
I think Vinny/Ansom were doing it TV style, that is, max-bat-stacking, so the stack bonus woud probably be nil.
strange7person wrote:
Dystopianman wrote:
Quote:
dystopianman wrote:
Correct, as stated before, CW's have the ability to overrule the Ruler under specific circumstances. The Ruler, however, is free to use his or her Power to disband, imprison, convince, or otherwise attempt to circumvent that overruling as suits his or her Free Will.

EDIT: Another possibility, find a Warlord more sympathetic to the Ruler's point of view and promote THAT warlord to chief. Happens all the time in Stupidworld.

Quote:

Anomynous 167 wrote:
The interesting thing about this update is that it shows that even if you lose a position of authority, your orders still stick. As evidenced by how the stationary artilery had to stay put in the position that Vinny designated, even after he rebelled.

Don King really had to get Caesar to release him from his orders of not talking to Vanna. Demoting him from Chief Warlord wouldn't be sufficient, as he would still be under the effects of the orders of the one who gave them to him.


True, the Ruler, in this case would have to then order the new Chief Warlord to undo the Order of the previous Chief Warlord. A minor extra step, all things considered, but it does illustrate your point nicely that the Ruler is still automagically bound. I do agree that if a unit is automagically bound that cuts into Free Will as we understand it.

Therefore, I believe that enough counter arguments have been made on this subject to amend the theory of Agency, at least to my mind, concerning Ruler Free Will. While Rulers still do not possess unlimited Free Will as we understand due to the fact that they CAN be automagically bound in some specific circumstances, they still enjoy the highest degree of Agency and Free Will in Erfworld, compared to all other unit types. Thus, their state of being still does approach the closest state to Free Will that Stupidworlders and Realworlders would understand.

Isn't that crazy btw? That Duty compels you to follow Orders given by someone you know turned against your side? In Stupidworld, I'm not sure troops would knowingly follow orders from someone they knew turned against them. Ah the life of a game piece. The deconstruction continues.

How does a ruler's agency compare to, say, that of a barbarian warlord, or feral city-slaying monster, or unaligned caster in the MK?


I hadn't considered the first two. I believe they would also have Free Will as we understand it. Previous posts I made described the unaligned casters in the MK as free individuals as well. Looking back on my language in the original writeup of Agency, I believe I erred when saying that Rulers have the highest level of Free Will/Agency in Erfworld. Rather Rulers are one of the few types/situations a unit can exist in that enjoy Free Will (or perhaps the ability to use it?) approaching the understanding of Stupidworlders' concept of Free Will.
Little late to the party, simply reading through every comment to make sure you're up to speed takes a long time...

So, Capital Strike, as I understand it, is a leadership decapitation attack. Kill the king, CW and most competent leadership, maybe even the heir. If the king is foolish enough to be in battle, you'd kill him and end things quickly. I never understood this as a literal "strike the kingdom's capital city" and, to me, the way I read it avoids any confusion. Hope this adds something to the discussion.
Anomynous 167 wrote:
[snip]Must.. undertake... art challenge...[snip]


If the unit you drew existed, it would no doubt cause an RCC-like coalition of all sides with a sense of aesthetic to form and wage a holy war to exterminate that abomination, raze all cities that could ever pop it and salt the ground.
Although it'd probably outright cause Erfworld to BSOD.
kaylasdad99 wrote:

Ummmm, the disappearance of the black dwagons was due to an ill-advised "Familicide" spell, cast by an Elvish wizard who couldn't be bothered to acquire ultimate arcane power through hard work, study, and participation in adventuring.


The doily showed great promise, though.
I loved this update. Such a payoff on long-deferred threads.
The various issues Vinny is dealing with... Terrible guilt, new responsibility, this twisted mockery of his friend turned ally...
And Ansom, as his friend, advising him...

Haven't read the thread, just sharing my reaction.
I'm glad the conversation has somehow reached V's doily, though. Its importance cannot be overstated.