Book 3 - Page 228

Chief Execrable Officer

Book 3 - Page 228
Comic - Book 3 - Page 228
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Caprice wrote:
Madhattan wrote:
I hope there will be an update that outlines how "those that matter" intend to enforce the New Bargain with "those that don't matter".

Who cares, they don't matter :mrgreen:

Seriously though, I think it would be pretty easy to enforce. The Florists are known to give away food to the needy - break the Bargain and you're no longer welcome at the soup kitchen. Have a deal with a Thinkamancer or Hat Magician to "page" you when someone posts a job at the Job Board? Not anymore you don't. Wondering if the Lookamancers are undressing you with their eyes? Now they are, every time.
And is it just you, or is there a strange ringing in your ears? Maybe it's just you.


Pinky swearing and contracts don't do too bad keeping promises. Attempting to disobey and you get a massive headache. On that thought you might carney-fool your portal to overload the senses as an active denial countermeasure when approaching it form either side.
guynietoren wrote:
David Hunt wrote:

You make good points, but the thinkamancers do actually have an advantage or two that gives them power that people like the carnies and hokey pokeys don't have. That's money. When it comes down to it, every free caster in the MK has to come up with their upkeep or they're toast. The Thinkamancers are in high demand because of their ability to provide quick and allegedly secure communications. This, their highly organized structure, and perhaps effects they get out of their linking make place them effectively at the top of the pecking order in the MK.

They say they're opposed to Charlie because of how he perverts thinkamancy and that may be true, but they've got massive incentives to take him out because they can't afford for the information that he can spy on thinkagrams to get out. Their biggest source of income could dry up if that happened and they might end up scrounging for work or even marching off to the Short Pier.


Have we learned how the great minds make upkeep? They seem to keep to themselves and never leave MK. I could see them imposing taxes on other thinkamancers, or operating like gangs in stupidworld. The newer casters wouldn't be able to oppose level 7 linkups. They could easily make money breaking up caster link ups, but probably not high in demand.

I just figured the great minds remain in power because they don't outwardly appear to be in power by the other caster groups. At least that's how I would avoid being challenged.


As zilfallon noted, they do work.

They have the advantage that they can sell the ability to use thinkagrams. The can run that business from within the MK without having to leave. To quote from wiki article on Tisha:

Quote:
For nearly two thousand turns, she calls the rain soaked ruin her home. She reached out to nearby sides by mental contact, never showing herself physically. She sustained her upkeep by contracting out for basic long-distance Thinkamancy services and espionage.


Being able to sell your services from the MK without ever having to leave is a major advantage for maintaining their physical safety. Their near constant presence in the MK also gives them advantages in influencing the politics of the MK. This should also be true of the other disciplines that can make a living without leaving.

The Healomancers can sell scrolls that I'm certain are in high demand. Hat Magicians likely do a brisk business in message hats. The Hippies use their agriculture to keep going and Dirtamancers also seem to able to sell useful services to the other MK inhabitants. I'm sure there are a few other disciplines that I've missed but on the whole I don't think you're likely to Matter in the MK if you have to scrounge outside work to keep going
guynietoren wrote:
Caprice wrote:
Madhattan wrote:
I hope there will be an update that outlines how "those that matter" intend to enforce the New Bargain with "those that don't matter".

Who cares, they don't matter :mrgreen:

Seriously though, I think it would be pretty easy to enforce. The Florists are known to give away food to the needy - break the Bargain and you're no longer welcome at the soup kitchen. Have a deal with a Thinkamancer or Hat Magician to "page" you when someone posts a job at the Job Board? Not anymore you don't. Wondering if the Lookamancers are undressing you with their eyes? Now they are, every time.
And is it just you, or is there a strange ringing in your ears? Maybe it's just you.


Pinky swearing and contracts don't do too bad keeping promises. Attempting to disobey and you get a massive headache. On that thought you might carney-fool your portal to overload the senses as an active denial countermeasure when approaching it form either side.


Well the New Bargain is (I think) a modification or amendment to a previous Grand Bargain (GB). No one's explicitly said what the GB covers, but it's name suggests that it's a contract amongst all the disciplines to set down the rules of how everyone behaves in the MK. I'm guessing that it's where the protocols for Qualification and Trials come from and that it's also where they set the limits on Casters going through hostile Portals. It obviously sets some limits on what Casters can do inside the MK like some restrictions on scrying the Great Minds have obviously found a loophole around. I'd bet it's also where the restrictions on fire in the MK come from.

As to how the MK enforces it on various Casters, I'd guess by the threat of death. There are probably Signamancy effects that are binding the actual Signers of the New Bargain, but I suspect that they're also expected to police the rest of the MK. Marie mentioned that if she peeked through the CC Portal to see what was going on, she'd need a guarantee of upkeep because she'd be under sentence of death in the MK. In short, she was saying she'd need to join GK in at least a de facto capacity. That's a strong enforcement method.
Morgaln wrote:
elecampane wrote:

This is beyond ridiculous. Of course there is a distinction between the two words (0beron used the word "Expired") — they have a different spectrum of meanings. You could, for example, say, "I failed at the finals", but you could not say "I expired at the finals".


Unless you're the ghost of a person that died during the finals. Then you can reasonably claim to have expired at the finals. You might not have failed them, though. :lol:


Father: Come on son, doing homework never killed anyone.
Son: So why should I be the first?
zilfallon wrote:
guynietoren wrote:
Have we learned how the great minds make upkeep? They seem to keep to themselves and never leave MK.

Nah, we know they work. For example, Roger was frequently hired by Unaroyal.


Right, and it seems many of the Minds are busy outside the temple at any given time. There are 26 of them, and we've never seen more than 18 in one spot. Roger actually says they were fortunate to have as many as 18 Minds available during Portal Park, inferring that 8 others were elsewhere. Isaac prefers short contracts and Roger only hires out to royal sides. As the greatest of the Great Minds, we can assume that if they work, all the others do too.
David Hunt wrote:
Woomod wrote:
Maelfaesh wrote:
And why is the thinkamancer group "in charge?" Why are they seemingly able to ignore rules and agreements with impunity yet no one can seem to quite contemplate open disagreement. Its not like they have an official rulership of the MK. I'm confused why the other casters don't ever seem to want to politically gang up on them. They're just awful people.


They aren't, all the magics groups have their own assumption that they have the real truth of magic.
Remember it's hocus pocus and hippiemancy that colluded to summon parson, and Remember the entire rand system exists because the cevermancers would trivially take over if they used shmuckers.

We've just seen more of eyemancy's governing body, and they've tipped their hands more to their OP spells recently.


You make good points, but the thinkamancers do actually have an advantage or two that gives them power that people like the carnies and hokey pokeys don't have. That's money. When it comes down to it, every free caster in the MK has to come up with their upkeep or they're toast. The Thinkamancers are in high demand because of their ability to provide quick and allegedly secure communications. This, their highly organized structure, and perhaps effects they get out of their linking make place them effectively at the top of the pecking order in the MK.

They say they're opposed to Charlie because of how he perverts thinkamancy and that may be true, but they've got massive incentives to take him out because they can't afford for the information that he can spy on thinkagrams to get out. Their biggest source of income could dry up if that happened and they might end up scrounging for work or even marching off to the Short Pier.


Why are Thinkamancers in charge? Or more generally, the Eyemancers? In part, because knowledge is power. The New Bargain puts some limits on their information gathering for a while, but Thinkamancy holds a special place in communications, and in the powerful linking ability.

They are in demand both in the MK and outside it, making upkeep relatively easy.

We got to see Bunny making contact with Charlie, and being terrified by the power of the Arkendish. I think all the master Thinkamancers got the same feeling dealing with him. While all disciplines maintain their own secrets, the Arkendish threatens everyone's security. It is just that the GMs are most aware of just how powerful Charlie really is.

They themselves have great power, but have not been shown to make use of much of it directly. They keep secrets, in part so other random Thinkamancers don't exploit their full powers and upset the balance in the MK, and in Erfworld. Other Master class casters do have some pretty terrifying potential, but superior knowledge and intelligence is an advantage applicable to just about any situation, unlike most magic.

Of the other disciplines, Hocus Pocus offers knowledge, but not with nearly the utility of Eyemancy, and of much less value within the MK itself. The remainder are more generally direct actors, some having value within the MK, most requiring some work outside in order to support themselves.

Spookism and Stuffamancy can do real physical work, both in the MK and outside. Anyone who can make practical things of use in the MK is pretty much set to support themselves, if not make them rich and powerful. Dirtamancers are pretty strong, as there are no construction fabricators or automagic city building in the MK.

Clevermancy doesn't seem like it would be in demand within the MK itself very much, but they can provide outside services and so do OK.

Hippiemancy has some nice self-sustaining support abilities, plus acting as special negotiators for contracts.

Naughtymancy is rather useless within the MK itself, but their abilities would be in demand outside, albeit sometimes risky. Only in rare cases would their power be of use within the MK, but at that point they could become rather important for enforcement.

All casters who can make useful scrolls for sale have that option.

Stagemancers are in an odd place. Hat Magic and Rhyme-O-Mancy offer services of use both inside and out of the MK, while Carnymancers are left out. But like with Hippymancy and the Date-A-Mancers, they can get by with the help of their friends in their discipline, even if their own castings can't support them.

So who really matters within the MK? Power can come from many sources, with wealth being one of them, but superior knowledge can overcome that advantage. Being both self-sufficient within the MK and providing useful services to other disciplines is a source of real power within the MK, and the Thinkamancers have both.
kkdragonlord wrote:
El Chupacabra wrote:
Um... he's now Chief Dirtamancer? Does that mean they now know of Claude?


He said it as if "Dirtamancer" was a dirty word.That's what he meant.
That's because royal sides see dirtamancers as peasants from a Monthy Python skit.


Agreed; I took it as, "You're still chief... chief of cwap!"

Anomynous 167 wrote:
David Hunt wrote:

Edited to add: Pierce is the Chief Caster of Jetstone so he's the Chief Healomancer. Bennie is Chief Caster of TV so he's the Chief Moneymancer. I don't know if Jillian ever bothered to designate Vanna (her only Caster) as Chief so maybe she was Chief Turnamancer before she, uhm, turned to TV and became just a TV Turnamancer. I suspect Charlie has never designated himself as Chief Carnymancer of Charlescomm as and hid position of Overlord probably makes it entirely redundant.

Vanna was never on the side of Faq. She was just a mercenary on their payroll.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't she on Charlie's payroll, and just supplied by Charlie to Faq/TV?

Carl wrote:
Thus weather fate cares or not, (given the assumption of law of conservation of detail and law of inferences), has to refer to weather or not a unit is fated. There's simply nothing else it could refer to without creating a logic problem or referring to a state or states of which we have no knowledge or inference of.

(boldface added for emphasis)

I probably shouldn't bother with this, but for someone who is being so pedantic about the meaning and choice of words, and for your talk of "advanced English classes," that's quite a blunder.

Belrodes wrote:
Woomod wrote:
Nightseraph wrote:

I expect if Wanda does croak, that fate will pop "Wanda 2, Wanda harder" in a side near to the current conflict.
I can picture it now. Wanda is executed. The heir to TV pops as a blue eyed dark haired croakomancer. Parson quips, "Wanda?" to her.
She asks, confused, "How do you know my name?"


This is basically how we are told fate works, if it's plans get derailed it pulls out something stronger to rerail them.


This is, of course, assuming that Fate still wants Wanda to have the Arkenpliers. We have no idea what Wanda's intended purpose is, or whether her death in the Magic Kingdom as a result of the trial has anything to do with it. She might have been fated to get captured in the Battle of Portal Park, and so her bubble "failing" was simply Fate allowing her to get hit with the first attack meant to incapacitate her rather than croak her. She needed a shield against the archons, but once they were dealt with her protection was lifted.

That might just be my personal wish to have Fate be less of a magical, nigh-impervious suit of armor though. I'd prefer Wanda to actually be saved by clever tactics or a heroic move, not be an invincible force that respawns if you somehow croak her.


(boldface added for emphasis)

I would have to think that if that were Wanda's fate, that it would have been shown as Fate succeeding, rather than failing.
Palagpat wrote:

Anomynous 167 wrote:
David Hunt wrote:

Edited to add: Pierce is the Chief Caster of Jetstone so he's the Chief Healomancer. Bennie is Chief Caster of TV so he's the Chief Moneymancer. I don't know if Jillian ever bothered to designate Vanna (her only Caster) as Chief so maybe she was Chief Turnamancer before she, uhm, turned to TV and became just a TV Turnamancer. I suspect Charlie has never designated himself as Chief Carnymancer of Charlescomm as and hid position of Overlord probably makes it entirely redundant.

Vanna was never on the side of Faq. She was just a mercenary on their payroll.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't she on Charlie's payroll, and just supplied by Charlie to Faq/TV?

Charlie payed Faq to hire Vanna (since she never TURNED to Faq). Ergo, she was on Faq's payroll.
Anomynous 167 wrote:
Palagpat wrote:

Anomynous 167 wrote:

Vanna was never on the side of Faq. She was just a mercenary on their payroll.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't she on Charlie's payroll, and just supplied by Charlie to Faq/TV?

Charlie payed Faq to hire Vanna (since she never TURNED to Faq). Ergo, she was on Faq's payroll.


So technically on Faq's payroll, but just with funds supplied by Charlie; got it. I knew Charlie had funded much of Faq's operations, but I had just somehow thought that with Charlie being able to redirect Vanna to TV, and with the two of them in regular direct communication regarding her activities there, that she may have been less removed from Charlie than other Faq assets.
nnescio wrote:
Lipkin wrote:
HopesBlade wrote:

How does Hamster regain the tech edge over Charlie?
It seems to me, like Charlie is make quad 20mm's anti air, and M1A1s, not the more modern M1A4 Carbine or surface to air missiles. I'm seeing browning .30 machine guns, not M60's, or 240Bs, or M2s. I think Charlies conception of modern armaments, isn't quite that modern.

I would hope that, even without military training- just being an American in the Modern world, Parson is aware of developments beyond this. Stealth, for example, comes immediately to mind. Also, I feel like Hamster would have better conceptional start points to try and attempt reproducing future tech. If Charlie is from Post Vietnam / Pre Desert Storm, there's a whole host of things he might not consider. Power armor, leaps to the top of MY list.

I definitely think that if Parson ever meets Ivan in person, Parson will become inspired to become Heavy Weapons Guy. If the turrets are that effective, imagine Parson packing a mini-gun.


Needs a Healomancer for that.

"Get behind me, PIERCE!"

Wait, maybe an ex-Altruist Juggle elf can work.

Works better, actually, since mediguns and miracle poles can both provide limited invulnerability.