Book 3 - Page 225

Tunnel Vision Quest

Book 3 - Page 225
Comic - Book 3 - Page 225
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Or perhaps the GMs mindcontrolled the Acrion Figure.
Wild spec: Wanda moved the guns. I know it's an extreme longshot that would require multiple guesses to be right, but consider:

We have learned from the Transylvito arc, that it is possible for casters to gain juice while imprisoned: Wanda is linked to Bonnie, to Ace and potentially, to Jed through Ace. We've learned it is possible for an imprisoned caster to control enemy units: The action dolly is a Gobwin Knob design. How would she learn of their location? She could overhear the dirtamancers talking of the escape and jump to a better conclusion.

What could she hope to accomplish by moving the guns/wrench? Well if she could use an explosion below the bedrock to trigger another explosion above ground, the resulting fires would require the attentions of the dirtamancers, drawing them away from her cell. An escape attempt would be much easier after that, especially if she'd acquired a gun from the bunker via Findamancy.

If she then succeeded in forcing a barbarian to repatriate her at gun point, she'd be able to reclaim the pliers with Findamancy, perhaps swapping them with a grenade summoned from the bunker during the night. At that point, she'd have good odds of making it out alive. The barbarians on the other hand, might be out of luck.

I realise Charlie's by far the most likely suspect of course, with the mindcultists coming second simply by virtue of knowing about the place. But they aren't the only options. And Wanda's supposed to be very special, hence, Book Zero.
David Hunt wrote:
Without some major effort on mutilation (ala Bogroll), just ignoring the corpses is the quickest way to dispose of them.


It looks like Bogroll wasn't mutilated, they just killed him after he landed. But in most D&D / fantasy-style games, "trolls" or twolls would have regeneration anyways, and burning is one of the classic disposal methods.
kaylasdad99 wrote:
atteSmythe wrote:
Ansan Gotti wrote:
I'm leaning toward the wiring allowing for a portal to appear in the bunker, personally, but in such a case, I don't understand why they just left the bodies there.
That's one of the two key pieces of this mystery, IMO:

1) Who was able to access the bunker and move or remove all the weapons?
2) Who has motive to leave the bodies of Ivan and Claud recoverable while doing so? (Alternatively, who does not have motive to destroy the bodies of Ivan and Claud?)

IMO, #2 excludes both Charlie and the GMtTA from being involved in raiding the bunker. Each of those entities would not make the mistake of leaving the bodies around simply because they couldn't see any way of them being raised, not with Wanda and the Pliers still technically on the table.

That really makes me lean toward Sizemore or the Hippiemancers being responsible, but it's really hard to justify #1 for them given what we know right now.

As for #2, I think that Charlie just made the mistake of believing that Wanda and the 'Pliers were not still a factor, and the Decryption of Ivan and Claud was not still on the table. He's got a lot on his mind; the Battle for Portal Park is recent enough that he hasn't made a priority of figuring out a contingency plan for the possible Decryption of two units hidden in the bunker nobody knows about, after they have been croaked by a method that isn't possible.

tldr: he left the bodies there because he didn't see any benefit in pre-empting a Decryption event.

Charlie did not make the mistake of believing they couldn't be decrypted. He did afterall, make them swear to serve Charlescom forever. Which raises the question of what are they doing in the enemy's livery. Maybe they are spying for Charlie under the influence of Gobwin Knob?
M1rth wrote:
David Hunt wrote:
Without some major effort on mutilation (ala Bogroll), just ignoring the corpses is the quickest way to dispose of them.


It looks like Bogroll wasn't mutilated, they just killed him after he landed. But in most D&D / fantasy-style games, "trolls" or twolls would have regeneration anyways, and burning is one of the classic disposal methods.

So that's when Sylvia had held the pliers, and had gotten that "tingling feeling". Had Parson not ordered Sizemore to drop the tower, Silvia would have either gotten burned by the Bogroll fire or she'd be the one to decrypt Ansom.

That would be something. A decrypted Ansom under Sylvia Lazarus of Unaroyal.
Really wild speculation about who took the stuff:

A very special crew of Archons has been living in complete secrecy in another part of the tunnel complex built by Poe but unknown to him or Claud. Their names are remembered by none but Charlie and perhaps the Fox Force. They were considered too important to risk in the firefight at the portal.

Or, perhaps, just a single Archon, who has lived in solitude underground for hundreds of turns, believing herself to be on a special mission for Charlie with promotion to Fox Force as her reward for success.
contrabassist wrote:
Really wild speculation about who took the stuff:

A very special crew of Archons has been living in complete secrecy in another part of the tunnel complex built by Poe but unknown to him or Claud. Their names are remembered by none but Charlie and perhaps the Fox Force. They were considered too important to risk in the firefight at the portal.

Or, perhaps, just a single Archon, who has lived in solitude underground for hundreds of turns, believing herself to be on a special mission for Charlie with promotion to Fox Force as her reward for success.


I suppose it's weirdly in the realm of possibility... but if the archon(s) live down there, why would they bother moving anything at all?
He's got the whole world in His hands
He's got the whole world in His hands
He's got the whole world in His hands
He's got the whole world in His hands

He's got the itty bitty baby in His hands
He's got the itty bitty baby in His hands
He's got the itty bitty baby in His hands
He's got the whole world in His hands

He's got a-you and me brother in His hands
He's got a-you and me brother in His hands
He's got a-you and me brother in His hands
He's got the whole world in His hands

He's got a-you and me sister in His hands
He's got a-you and me sister in His hands
He's got a-you and me sister in His hands
He's got the whole world in His hands

He's got the whole world in His hands
He's got the whole world in His hands
He's got the whole world in His hands
He's got the whole world in His hands
Anomynous 167 wrote:

Charlie did not make the mistake of believing they couldn't be decrypted. He did afterall, make them swear to serve Charlescom forever. Which raises the question of what are they doing in the enemy's livery. Maybe they are spying for Charlie under the influence of Gobwin Knob?


Or Decryption just pops them anew, without any of the contracts/curses/promises/etc of their first life still hanging over them. That's one option.

Also, even if it's possible to get around that and make a contract that "survives decryption" (heh) with fancy carnymancy or signamancy magic, but we saw the scene from Charlie's perspective and he didn't do anything like that, he just asked them to turn to Charlescomm and then accepted their turning. The particular words they said while turning might not have had any more effect than "I hereby Turn to Charlescomm".
Jade wrote:
I don't know if it's possible, but it'd be nice if there was a keyword search for the comics, so if you wanted to find every page where "Rifle" or "Disband" occurred, you wouldn't have to dig through three books of pages to get them. Might make it easier to research before you post.


It (kind of) is! The wiki has text transcripts of everything, so Google "Rifle site:wiki.erfworld.com". Only downside is you get a lot of non-comic pages from the greater wiki in the results. (I used Google here because haven't gotten the wiki search to return results from the comic transcripts. It works better with more specificity - try, for example, "fat man", as a phrase.)
Lipkin wrote:
Spoiler: show
Anomynous 167 wrote:

I'm pretty sure a findamancer can check for psychological aspects, because the findamancy in Wanda casting the summoning spell was that she was looking specifically for a mind.

If you fully read the spoiler, you'd have seen that Wanda was only able to look for psychological aspects because of the Thinkamancy involved in the link.

Kaed wrote:
Anomynous 167 wrote:

I'm pretty sure a findamancer can check for psychological aspects, because the findamancy in Wanda casting the summoning spell was that she was looking specifically for a mind.


... That exact point is literally explained in the multi-paragraph bit about Findamancy. This part, right here.

Quote:
Mixing it with other disciplines can drastically change this; thinkamancy in Parson's summoning spell allowed for the Findamancy to locate someone based upon psychological criteria, for example.

Lord Dominator wrote:
Anomynous 167 wrote:
Lipkin wrote:
RE: Kaed
Spoiler: show
It is terrible, unspeakable necromancy for me to post here when the thread has officially died and been slowly sinking into the archives for nearly two years... but I haven't been posting anything on the forum in that amount of time, and a bit of checking on the more recent pages didn't turn up anything that looked like an active Erfgame-or-similar.

I return because it's been another GenCon, and I took notes again. Since anyone reading this forum can be assumed to be a huge Erfworld mechanics nerd, I thought you all would want to know the latest news. Fair warning: This rambles a bit, and everything written here is filtered by both my own understanding of what was said and also by my ability to effectively express that understanding, and of course, as ever nothing is true canon unless it's in the comic.


My opening question for this year was "what does a Findamancer actually do?" The simple and trivial "finds things" answer has never really sat well with me, particularly with the sense that Lookamancy sort of fits into the same niche. Fortunately, there were answers to be had on this.
You may recall that a couple years ago, I posted about how Signamancy is the discipline which is used for discerning historical information, and is useful for tracking and such because in spite of things reverting or repairing on a turn-by-turn basis, a hex "remembers" events that have taken place there. Each hex, effectively, maintains a historical database on itself. This Erfworld-as-computer paradigm is ultimately an analogy, but a useful one because Erfworld does in fact have Numbers underpinning its existence, so you can think of hexes, units, cities, and whatever all as objects in the programming sense, masses of data- their Numbers- which interact with one another in specified ways- Erfworld mechanics.

Using this paradigm, Findamancy can be conceptualized with a fair bit of accuracy as the ability to query the Erfworld database for already-existing information and getting it in a format relating to the user of the discipline. At the most base level this is a query which returns a distance; "where is the nearest enemy heavy" returns "8 hexes away" or similar. Increasing mastery of Findamancy (and increasing expenditure of juice) gives direction and allows for the use of more complex queries from the user.

What Findamancy does NOT do is anything other than retrieve existing numbers. Pure Findamancy cannot, for example, say "find a ruler who would be willing to ally with me", because it can't model the interactions between units which may or may not result in an alliance (the example required would need date-a-mancy). It could find a ruler, or a ruler of a specific side, but it can't predict what that ruler will do. The farther you move outside the realm of hard observable facts, the more difficult a time Findamancy has. It may not be able to reference things based upon intangibles at all, even those whose existence is certain; that discussion was left incomplete. Nor can it reference the past, or potential futures; only the present is within its scope. Mixing it with other disciplines can drastically change this; thinkamancy in Parson's summoning spell allowed for the Findamancy to locate someone based upon psychological criteria, for example. Presumably date-a-mancy could allow queries which account for modeling expected interpersonal interactions and signamancy could allow queries of past events.

The three disciplines of Hocus Pocus fit together in a highly synergistic way as different aspects of informational magic; Findamancy is essentially the database tables of Erfworld-as-it-is, Mathamancy does not gather data but rather is used to generate output tables of some specific operations using already-acquired data, usually presented as probability statistics, and Predictamancy alerts the user to special rules and cases which modify which of those probabilities are valid. Taken individually, any of these disciplines have significant holes in their ability to achieve what a caster might want, but when combined they make for truly staggering data processing ability by covering each others' informational gaps and leapfrogging off each others' information to produce more impressive results.

Summoning does fall under Findamancy, which initially seems unrelated to information retrieval, but object retrieval is in many ways a physical application of the same principle- except that instead of returning numbers in response to the findamancer's juice-fueled database query, Erfworld returns the object itself to them. The amount of juice required is directly proportional to distance, because movement in Erfworld is "paid for" by Move as units change location, and the Findamancer is essentially substituting for this Move by paying juice instead. Note that this operation cannot be reversed- Findamancers cannot do outgoing teleportation, only incoming, because Findamancy is always rooted in the self- the user is the locational anchor of their spell. Hat Magicians can do outgoing, as we've seen in the comic, but they need an anchor (hat) at each end to make that work and it's functioning on entirely different principles.

Because of these applications and limitations, Findamancers are generally considered most useful when taken into the field, since triangulation and being close to any teleportation objectives means lower juice costs. A findamancer could have easily found Faq, veil or no veil, assuming that they asked the right questions.

That is very interesting, and also very frustrating. Because that bit about not being able to find psychological aspects contradicts something in Finding Sanctuary.

I'm pretty sure a findamancer can check for psychological aspects, because the findamancy in Wanda casting the summoning spell was that she was looking specifically for a mind.
The spoiler actually explains why the SPW spell could look for a mind - it included Thinkamancy together with Findamancy, and thus achieved what Findamancy on its own could not.

Feck off, all of ye! With ye'r "It was answered in the wall of text" bulloney. That is not a damned argument. Whatever was spoken from Exaed is no less canon then what I said in retaliation to it. Just because a guy doesn't post here for a few years, doesn't make the guy quoting him a prophet!