Book 3 - Page 221

Stiff upper lip

Book 3 - Page 221
Comic - Book 3 - Page 221
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nargbop wrote:
iwinatlife wrote:
It has been Established that Guns are exempt from Flower Power. So she is gonna need more than Janis to get out of that Mansion.


Where was that established?


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It was less stated that they are exempt from flower power as that a flying bullet can't be stopped by flower power magic, which as we have seen in book zero doesn't so much stop people from attacking as make it impossible to connect. I think either bullets are too powerful to be stopped by such a simple spell, or they follow the same principles as 'falling objects'. Once they're released, they don't have any hostile intent that can be stopped. They are just physics. Like when Jillian pointed out the yellow dragon could just crap on the tree monster during her fight with Olive.

Keep in mind the 'peacebinding' spell Janis planned to do with the Minds did not function like basic flower power and just block attacks from landing, it would have prevented attacks in the first place, thus negating the risk of bullets.

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Anomynous 167 wrote:
thosta wrote:
Most sides are scarce in casters. I mean, Jetstone had what, four casters at their peak? Unaroyal two and TV only three? There is not many places on Erf that Thinkamancers can really do their thing.

Unaroyal had 3.

Unaroyal had four: Vanna, Jojo, and two we haven't met named Bowie and Spenser.
lordfisch wrote:
Whispri wrote:
Hero of Shadows wrote:
Your post seems to ignore every action GK has taken in the MK up until the fight itself, [snip perfectly valid points] but that does not mean that GK should not be prosecuted.

I'm not involved in law or law enforcement in any way so if anybody else on this forum is please correct my analogy but if there's a fight between two gangs and once the police arrives they can only arrest members from one gang, that the second gang gets off free does not mean that the first gang's members should be released.

Even if the police is typing the conflict so that the second gang wins, the first gang still needs to be prosecuted.

Those were Hamster's crimes - and Wanda wasn't on trial for them. And you forget that the barbarians were hostile towards Gobwin Knob long before any of that happened, they were outraged when Wanda bonded with the pliers. But never mind that, I think this update (and others prior) made it pretty clear that the barbarians break their own rules routinely and said rules are mostly for other people.

Yea, this. I obviously don't forget all the things Parson/GK did that peeved the MK off beforehand, but those aren't the things this trial is about, at least the pretense isn't about that.

The problem with your analogy is that the free casters in the MK aren't the police; they don't (or shouldn't) have any authority over whether sided casters -- who live in, work in, and affect the course of the "real" world -- live or die. The MK isn't a utopia, it doesn't have a higher moral authority, and it doesn't play in the geopolitical sphere of the rest of Erfworld. It's a utility drawer that sides can stick their hands in and shuffle around in if they feel like it. It's the sides that determine whether the barbarian casters of the MK live or die, not the other way around. This is like the vegetable peeler and apple corer got sick of one of your fingers and chopped off your arm.

(I may have strong opinions on the reach of the MK's power...)


Government in Erfworld isn't quite like our real world, because individuals have both direct controlling power over others by orders and contracts, and by the absolute individual power of abilities. Especially casters.

The MK is a meritocracy, sort of like the Bat Pack in TV. Quorums of the Qualified make all key decisions for the MK. They are the law, just as rulers and chiefs are the law for sides. The TV mafia analogy is very strong here. Only those actually "made" by merit have any authority in the MK. Each Class of magic has its own council, but they work together by mutual recognition of Qualified status.

It seems to me that the barbarian residents of the MK are first and foremost interested in what happens in the MK. To keep its residents safe, and enforce the unwritten law of traditional peace between all in the MK.

GK and Charlie violated that peace. The trial of Wanda gives the MK leaders the authority to lock both sides out, and restore peace and order to their kingdom. From their POV, they are doing the right and necessary thing. No "real world" side has any authority or power over the MK.

Not yet, anyway. GK threatens to bring war to the MK itself. War isn't about what is legal or even just. It all comes down to who holds the real balance of power to act.

Wanda's escape would definitely ruin the outcome of the trial, if she gets away and can retain and expand a sided force within the MK. With Parson's help, who knows what she could do?
Whispri wrote:
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Anomynous 167 wrote:
You seem to be contradicting yourself. You say that GK didn't sell parson to pay a debt, they you say that GK does. Parson, as Chief Warlord, pawned himself to payoff his debt to Charlie. Ergo, Gobwin Knob sold Parson to Charlie to pay off a debt. What's not to get?

As for this "Duty to his friends" bulloney, does Parson have any friends outside of the folk in Gobwin Knob?

By that line of reasoning, Gobwin Knob gave the pliers to Janis and Sizemore had nothing to do with it.

You mean aside from his gamer buddies? Caesar perhaps. Maybe Janis(awkward).

Sizemore had nothing to do with what?

Eh, Caesar doesn't really count. He didn't become Parson's friend until after he turned to Charlescom... It just occured to me that Parson is an agent of Charlie. Watch out Caesar! He's just trying to render useless all of Transilvito's casters. Bunny is dead, and Bill and Vanna are locked away in the dungeon.
Ozamataz Buckshank wrote:
Anomynous 167 wrote:
thosta wrote:
Most sides are scarce in casters. I mean, Jetstone had what, four casters at their peak? Unaroyal two and TV only three? There is not many places on Erf that Thinkamancers can really do their thing.

Unaroyal had 3.

Unaroyal had four: Vanna, Jojo, and two we haven't met named Bowie and Spenser.

Knew about Bowie. Never hoid of Spenser.
Whispri wrote:
Bonnie and Artemis both seemed to think Wanda needed a line of sight to decrypt the fallen, Bonnie died trying to drag a body into cover, while Artemis ordered bodies dragged into Wanda's line of sight. They could have been mistaken I suppose, but she's done nothing to prove otherwise. Then again, it could have been a situational problem, that she couldn't mass decrypt without hitting everything in the magick kingdom (which could have lead to some discoveries) and didn't want to risk provoking the barbarians.


They thought it would be beneficial for her to have line of sight, for unspecified reasons. I'd place my Q's on that Mass Decrypt can't be easily targeted, so would hit everything, even if you don't want to hit it right then. Also, having things in line of sight so you have the right info lets you, in gaming parlance, hold your action for the opportune moment...like say, raising a corpse right when a high level unit comes within range of it. Not so sure that'd be easy if you didn't have line of sight.
LoS lets Wanda use her abilities more effectively, even if it's unrelated to the casting itself. It allows more tactical use of her abilities.

Anomynous 167 wrote:
Knew about Bowie. Never hoid of Spenser.


They're listed out in Bea's letter. He's a Findamancer.
wih wrote:

They're listed out in Bea's letter. He's a Findamancer.


How did I not catch Spenser's stupidworld signamancy until today, with the number of times the two as-yet unseen casters from Unaroyal come up in here?
Uncroaking this thread since it's relevant.

Why would the Minds use Roger as their door guard since he sucks at Lookamancy?

The answer I can think of is three fold;

1) Suddenly swapping Roger with someone else might give enough away for someone to work out that he's not a Master of Lookamancy

2) Maybe they wanted Wanda to have a chance for any last ditch plans that Parson had?

3) It kept Roger out of the Trancefusion which means they could Think Alike a lot easier. Especially when it comes to Parson related things.

Any other thoughts?
Roger is also apparently reputed to be on somewhat better terms with the Chiefs of Stuff and perhaps some other relevant disciplines, which would make sense given the Stupidworld Signamancy connections.

It is also plausible that master-class Lookamancy is more effective linked with the trance fusion state than it would be for a standalone caster, even overcoming proximity. Indeed, I don't know that proximity is even an issue as long as operating within the same hex, Isaac's comments on the subject indicate that it really isn't. He can probably scry right through Janis' clothes better from a trance fusion in the Temple than he could standing right in front of her without the link.

Probably all that Roger actually needs to do is be standing in the right place and look where Isaac tells him to look so as to allow the GMTTA to "have permission" to look there.
Chiu ChunLing wrote:
Roger is also apparently reputed to be on somewhat better terms with the Chiefs of Stuff and perhaps some other relevant disciplines, which would make sense given the Stupidworld Signamancy connections.

It is also plausible that master-class Lookamancy is more effective linked with the trance fusion state than it would be for a standalone caster, even overcoming proximity. Indeed, I don't know that proximity is even an issue as long as operating within the same hex, Isaac's comments on the subject indicate that it really isn't. He can probably scry right through Janis' clothes better from a trance fusion in the Temple than he could standing right in front of her without the link.

Probably all that Roger actually needs to do is be standing in the right place and look where Isaac tells him to look so as to allow the GMTTA to "have permission" to look there.


That'd be a hell of a flaw in the New Bargain, but I guess if it's a blanket "Thinkamancers can scry as part of duties of being Qualified" then it would make sense.

Either Janis's Stash is absurdly powerful or they can't do full on look-through-bedrock scrying under the new bargain.
Knavigator wrote:
That'd be a hell of a flaw in the New Bargain, but I guess if it's a blanket "Thinkamancers can scry as part of duties of being Qualified" then it would make sense.
Rodger's observation that the New Bargain actually would allow him to check out what had happened at the Temple under the circumstances is suggestive of as much.
Knavigator wrote:
Either Janis's Stash is absurdly powerful or they can't do full on look-through-bedrock scrying under the new bargain.
I suspect the Stash is no more powerful than Gangsigns or that Signamancy doodle-book of Parson's. The difference is that in the case of Gangsigns, what is physically there to observe has no meaning except to a Master Signamancer. We don't know exactly how Parson's doodle-book works, it might be that Signamancy hides whatever is there from everyone but Parson, but in that case some kind of dispelling effect would reveal the information, so it is more likely that the pages actually contain random doodles, but the enchantment of the book reveals to Parson what he was actually thinking about when he scribbled them.

In the case of the Stash, there is something physical present to be observed but Signamancy is hiding the meaning. Even if a Lookamancer sees the Stashed object (and Buck's comments indicate that even he did), it is unconsciously dismissed as a 'stash. The real test would be against a Foolamancer projecting an exact double of you, from observing you while you were Stashing something. Would the Stash hide the object on the double? Would it trick the Foolamancer into adding a generic mustache to the double instead of the Stashed object? Or would the double make plainly visible what you had Stashed? We know that it wouldn't work just to Eyemance with Foolamancy because Rodger didn't see it despite clearly being more adept at Foolamancy. And there's no particular reason that seeing more details of something you were magically influenced to misinterpret would cause you to realize you were misinterpreting it.

But yes, under the New bargain, the GMTTA were restricted from scrying under bedrock or anywhere else without permission...as far as Annie and Janis could figure, anyway.

Can't talk about Stashing without linking this.