Book 3 - Page 22

Book 3 - Page 22
Comic - Book 3 - Page 22
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effataigus wrote:
Every time Jillian stabs the messenger she kills the innocent messenger. Every time she risks her life pointlessly she forces fate to steal numbers from her own people, and thereby endangers them. IMO, her knowing about her fate armor would only make her decisions less justifiable.
Oh don't get me wrong, I still don't like her. I just no longer suspect Charlie's lobotomy took important parts of her actual brain.

Quote:
Hmm, and where is he... in defiance of his CWL no less?

As for why he didn't spend more time on the front lines in book 1, I point you to this page, where I believe you will find an answer.
http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%201/61
Hear hear!
oslecamo2 temp wrote:

You mean how Hamster's still dependant on Maggie to relay orders, since he's holed up in the MK and stuff, and couldn't even notice that Stanley had left GK? ;)


Parson says "I'm officially ordering Stanley out of the hex." Seeing as how Maggie was busy with the link, it's clear he can order his entire side without her help. But he can't do that without being CWL.
Lipkin wrote:
oslecamo2 temp wrote:

You mean how Hamster's still dependant on Maggie to relay orders, since he's holed up in the MK and stuff, and couldn't even notice that Stanley had left GK? ;)


Parson says "I'm officially ordering Stanley out of the hex." Seeing as how Maggie was busy with the link, it's clear he can order his entire side without her help. But he can't do that without being CWL.


He can't do that while being a CWL either. That was simply Hamster going "Stanley has to get out of there right now, do whatever it takes to make that happen".

If a CWL could give orders at distance, then there would not exist the problem of troops defaulting to auto-attack when there's no Warlord in the field to command them.

Back in book 1, Hamster was the CWL, but he needed the magic board (and later Magie) to relay his orders all the time, even when the battle was in the capital and he could see what was happenning with his own eyes.

Also when Jillian was raiding GK's cities, Hamster was the CWL but could just watch them get butchered without being able to apply his strategic genius.

Or, even more important, Hamster could've just ordered Stanley to change the capital's location when he was about to be burned to a crisp, without need of Maggie link.

What Hamster can do as a CWL is spend money directly from the treasury to buy upgrades and stuff.
oslecamo2 temp wrote:
Lipkin wrote:

Parson says "I'm officially ordering Stanley out of the hex." Seeing as how Maggie was busy with the link, it's clear he can order his entire side without her help. But he can't do that without being CWL.


He can't do that while being a CWL either. That was simply Hamster going "Stanley has to get out of there right now, do whatever it takes to make that happen".


CWL can order the Ruler. Jillian ordered Banhammer in Book 0 - they can order the Ruler when the survival of the side matters. If Parson believes that Stanley will croak, that would end the side, and he can order him.

oslecamo2 temp wrote:
If a CWL could give orders at distance, then there would not exist the problem of troops defaulting to auto-attack when there's no Warlord in the field to command them.

Auto-attacking is stopped by being led, not being ordered. CWL can order from afar but that doesn't mean he's leading the stack.

oslecamo2 temp wrote:
Or, even more important, Hamster could've just ordered Stanley to change the capital's location when he was about to be burned to a crisp, without need of Maggie link.


See the second to last panel of this strip: http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%202/197
wih wrote:
oslecamo2 temp wrote:
Lipkin wrote:

Parson says "I'm officially ordering Stanley out of the hex." Seeing as how Maggie was busy with the link, it's clear he can order his entire side without her help. But he can't do that without being CWL.


He can't do that while being a CWL either. That was simply Hamster going "Stanley has to get out of there right now, do whatever it takes to make that happen".


CWL can order the Ruler. Jillian ordered Banhammer in Book 0 - they can order the Ruler when the survival of the side matters. If Parson believes that Stanley will croak, that would end the side, and he can order him.

Never said otherwise. But he still needs to get the order there somewhere. That's why he's screaming the order to a thinkmancer. The unit that can relay orders at distance.

wih wrote:

oslecamo2 temp wrote:
Or, even more important, Hamster could've just ordered Stanley to change the capital's location when he was about to be burned to a crisp, without need of Maggie link.


See the second to last panel of this strip: http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%202/197


Interesting. But still invalid because:
-This is Hamster we're talking about, a non-native that still isn't very sure what he can or cannot do by Erfworld rules.
-Hamster then decided to start playing with a dangerous unknown scroll instead of doing the thing that would be most logic if CWLs could give orders at distance: ordering Stanley to change the capital and get it over with.

Speculation is all nice and stuff, but your point hinges in Hamster acting as an idiot retard at several points of the story and never ever taking advantage of this ability when it would've been awfully convenient.
Fair enough that evidence isn't quite there to point at orders being able to be given at range by CWLs - I take it there's a reason that Rulers also use Thinkamancers to give orders. It's possible that the distinction between what CWL and Ruler can do is similar. We know that Parson is still getting use to giving orders.

I suspect that CWL can gives orders at range, but only on certain topics, and with the same restrictions that make Rulers prefer Thinkamancers. But I don't think we have had it confirmed yet.
The many, many examples of rulers and CWLs sending orders by hat would be pretty pointless if CWLs could insta-order by natural thinkamancy or some such thing.
In Book 1 Stanley doesn't order all units to return to GK, he has the Eyemancers issue the order.
Daefaroth wrote:
In Book 1 Stanley doesn't order all units to return to GK, he has the Eyemancers issue the order.


Stanley can gives orders by ruler-sense: http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%202/199

Quote:
Why wasn‘t Maggie answering? Maybe he was too mad to concentrate. Grr.

“Screw it.” Using his Ruler sense, he gave her an order to contact him, and waited.


Obviously he seems to prefer to use other methods, but is explicitly capable of ordering without them.
My theory is that using indirect orders are less specific, and can be misunderstood unless they're backed up by context such as verbal or physical communication. Similar to how text for new-ish Warlords (such as Forecastle and Parson) talk about how they have to remember to put weight behind Orders, and how Jack had difficultly ( :( ) ordering a Dwagon properly - it must be even harder to give orders well when all you have is the raw mental order that you put behind the words.
I have a inkling there was also some interesting text relating to orders in Book 0, with Banhammer and Jillian.
I can give counter arguments to most of that but it still leaves the situation unclear.

Maggie is not a good example. Maggie is a Thinkamancer and both Stanley and Parson can get a connection with her by concentrating hard enough. Just because (he thinks) he can give her orders as if she were in the hex doesn't mean it would work for any other unit.

Forecastle is not a new Warlord. He just wasn't used to being on a ship. He was out of his element and didn't know the right terms to use to issue the orders.

Parson is by definition a bad example as he is missing the basic knowledge of the world that every unit is popped with.

When you say Jack was having trouble ordering a dwagon I assume you are referring to this. The dwagon did everything Jack told it to do. The difficulty was that the dwagon was missing an eye, therefore it had no depth perception. So instead of knocking a hole in the wall it crashed through it.

So without anything concrete on either side it seems to be that we are still at square 0.