Book 3 - Page 208

Jolly Roger

Book 3 - Page 208
Comic - Book 3 - Page 208
Recent posts... (See full thread)
Gameslayer989 wrote:
Ozamataz Buckshank wrote:
Mecharic wrote:
Yes, I know. They can Send from the Temple, but cannot receive a Sending or be Observed. However, they can also Observe, so by Sending him orders based on what they Observe him thinking, they can still communicate. It's a 'sploit, as Parson would put it.

Look, you are in serious denial if you think he's not sending to the minds when it says he's sending.

Roger calls his form of sending 'at least as much Lookamancy as Thinkamancy'. To me this says he's encoding messages with Thinkamancy but sending via Lookamancy, and the Thinkamancers are using their Lookamancy to read his Lookamancy, which they then understand with Thinkamancy. Imagine morse code except only other Lookamancers can see it, perhaps Lookamancers can see in wavelengths beyond the visible spectrum.

You can't send with Lookamancy, sending isn't what Lookamancy does. You might as well claim that someone shouted with their foot or read a musical instrument. The Minds could have used Lookamancy to see what the quorum is doing but that's explicitly not how they're getting their intel on the session.
Brachen wrote:
Noobamancer wrote:
Dollamancers are probably somewhere in the middle; it's a very flexible, mostly non-combat discipline, but it is hard to monetize in the MK. You can't make golems for sale in the MK as they cannot use portals.


Portal restrictions are one-directional. At the beginning of book three, they explicitly make a golem (the armyman) and send it through a portal completely expecting it to work (with no information, that said portal was actually carnied and would have worked even if they were unsure). Later on, Bonnie got through to Spacerock just fine. This makes golems very easy to monetize, since you can just send them to the client through a portal (and the dollamancers' houses do seem pretty nice, as far as signamancy goes, so they probably aren't lacking in funds).


The thing that bugs me about the one-directionality of the portals is Jojo's speech advocating for letting Parson go through the portal again. His wording to me implied that a normal non-caster unit would be disbanded for that.
wih wrote:
Brachen wrote:
Noobamancer wrote:
Dollamancers are probably somewhere in the middle; it's a very flexible, mostly non-combat discipline, but it is hard to monetize in the MK. You can't make golems for sale in the MK as they cannot use portals.


Portal restrictions are one-directional. At the beginning of book three, they explicitly make a golem (the armyman) and send it through a portal completely expecting it to work (with no information, that said portal was actually carnied and would have worked even if they were unsure). Later on, Bonnie got through to Spacerock just fine. This makes golems very easy to monetize, since you can just send them to the client through a portal (and the dollamancers' houses do seem pretty nice, as far as signamancy goes, so they probably aren't lacking in funds).


The thing that bugs me about the one-directionality of the portals is Jojo's speech advocating for letting Parson go through the portal again. His wording to me implied that a normal non-caster unit would be disbanded for that.


Jojo was working with Charlie and knew Charlie's plan. That plan, specifically, was to have King Slately change the capital of Jetstone from Spacerock to Jetstone... _after_ Parson entered the portal to Spacerock, thus trapping Parson in Spacerock. The idea then was to turn Spacerock into a gigantic trap to kill Parson, which very nearly happened.

In fact, Jojo being told this is shown (one sidedly) right here. Jojo had just done his best to stop Parson going through the portal at Charlie's instruction and then he gets told by Charley to convince the others to let Parson through the portal. He does this a few pages later.

And the page after that has the dialogue I think you are referencing. "Or will the portal reject him! Perhaps, even destroy him this time, as it would any ordinary warlord?" It does look like Jojo believes the portals are supposed to kill non-casters leaving the MK. There are a number of alternate explanations, chief among them being that he was trying to manipulate an angry mob into doing an about face on their existing goals and let Parson through. Perhaps the one-directional lethality of the portals is not common knowledge or was even completely unknown at the time. Or perhaps Jojo was simply ignorant of that fact. It's even possible that this is a detail in need of some retconjuration to bring it into line with events of Book 3.

All that said, it's been well established that the portals are only lethal to non-casters in one direction. There are numerous incidents that all favor such an interpretation including several that rely on more than just the opinions of characters.
JadedDragoon wrote:
wih wrote:
The thing that bugs me about the one-directionality of the portals is Jojo's speech advocating for letting Parson go through the portal again. His wording to me implied that a normal non-caster unit would be disbanded for that.


Jojo was working with Charlie and knew Charlie's plan. That plan, specifically, was to have King Slately change the capital of Jetstone from Spacerock to Jetstone... _after_ Parson entered the portal to Spacerock, thus trapping Parson in Spacerock. The idea then was to turn Spacerock into a gigantic trap to kill Parson, which very nearly happened.

If you could, perhaps, link to the page with the conversation you mention. I haven't been able to find it and thus can't comment on exact wording.

That said, it's been well established that the portals are only lethal to non-casters in one direction. There are numerous incidents that all favor such an interpretation.


All of the things that establish that are from Book 3, after said incident. Link is here
Jojo, 2-97 wrote:
Perhaps, even destroy him this time, as it would any ordinary warlord?!
wih wrote:
JadedDragoon wrote:
wih wrote:
The thing that bugs me about the one-directionality of the portals is Jojo's speech advocating for letting Parson go through the portal again. His wording to me implied that a normal non-caster unit would be disbanded for that.


...snip to prevent incomplete argument from propagating...


All of the things that establish that are from Book 3, after said incident. Link is here
Jojo, 2-97 wrote:
Perhaps, even destroy him this time, as it would any ordinary warlord?!


Yes I finally found it and made adjustments to my comment above. Unfortunately, not fast enough to preempt your response.
hajo4 wrote:
Noobamancer wrote:
How easy do you think golems would be to monetize?
..
if you have a side that has schmuckers and need troops, but lack suitable natural allies,
buying golems would be the perfect solution.

CC and GK aside, every side we have seen is short on cash.

And GK's lack of gobwins (until recently solved with the juggles)
was caused by CC, so that's a pretty unusual situation.


I'm not sure about that; every side we have seen that has been discussing their finaces (excluding GK and CC, then) are short on cash. TV was likely doing ok until Don started funding FAQ, while Carpool were razing their cities. Jetstone seems to have been a fairly wealthy side (they had lots of natural allies at one point), until GK stomped all over them.

The Digdoug backer story seems to imply that many sides skimp on their armies in order to rank up their cities (which causes them to promote more schmuckers), so I do not think financial troubles are quite as prelavent as it might seem.

Still, I agree with your general assessment, selling golems is likely not that big of a market. Especially since it takes a while to build up a suitable force; if you have money and need soldiers quickly, mercenaries are likely a better option. The only case I can see where a side would spend significant schmuckers on golems is if it's a wealthy side that lack heavies and siege: maybe if their natural allies are woodsy and alturistic elves (forest capable rangers and healers), and few of their cities pop good heavies. In that case it might make sense to bolster the heavies with bought golems. Still, this seems rare enough to support my original hypotesis that dollamancers make ok money, but aren't among the wealthiest disciplines overall.
Dewey the Signamancer wrote:

Say you gather every Rhyme-o-Mancer in the Magic Kingdom. Then have one (or more if that helps) of them use Rhyme-o-Mancy to boost the spellsinging ability of Rhyme-o-Mancer B, if possible specifically his ability to boost spellsongs. Then Rhyme-o-Mancer B use his boost to boost Rhyme-o-Mancer C. Rhyme-o-Mancer C is now enjoying a much bigger boost than what B could normally give him. C then uses his own boosted abilities to boost Rhyme-o-Mancer D who now gets a much bigger boost than what C got. Then D boosts E who boosts F who boosts G and so on and so forth. With each step the boost becomes bigger and in turn makes the next boost even bigger. Eventually the final boost is given to Rhyme-o-Mancer Z the greatest Master Class Rhyme-o-Mancer in the Magic Kingdom. His spellcasting abilities are boosted to an astronomical level and at this point he either starts another round of the loop if the Rhyme-o-Mancers have the juice for it, if not he simply casts whatever UBER spell you want him to cast right then and there.


Kinda like an army of Elans, buffing the Order of the Stick by singing a whole cacophony of bonus-increasing ditties all at once? Increasing each others' increase of said bonuses whilst giving a bonus to the Order?

I'm guessing you could use other disciplines in there, too. I mean, a rhyme-thinka-rhyme link would theoretically provide a much more powerful bonus than a single rhyme-o-mancer. A rhyme-thinka-carny link might be able to produce a bonus that allows a rule to be ignored entirely. A rhyme-thinka-shocka link could maybe hit for extra damage on certain beats in addition to the bonus from rhyme-o-mancy.

A rhyme-thinka-ditto link could double the buff it applies to the other links. Possibly doubling their buff before it applies the doubling of its own buff. We could even see a rhyme-thinka-dolla link capable of either producing golems which can dance fight without leadership, or leading golems to deadly effect (especially paired with the shocka and ditto links for their buffs).

Start throwing these linked casters into the equation, and my bet is that the bonuses could be piled up to the point where it's stupidly one-sided.
DukeofTuring wrote:
They've vicious savages who all need to be killed in the name of peace, yes :). And after that we'll just need to purge Erfworld of all the sides/units pretty specifically designed to be a perpetual war game. But once we're down to empty terrain hexes there will be peace!


Sorry for the late response, but having just played through the co-op Portal 2 story, and rescuing all the test subjects, I really wanted to say that this sounds so much like a solution GLaDOS would come up with; once all the humans stop fighting, and all we have are test subjects, things are so much more peaceful.
Lipkin wrote:
Caught a typo. It's written as "Skeeve Memebag" first, but then When they all nod, it's written as "Skeve Memebag."

Edit: Speaking of, Skeeve Memebag might be the greatest name ever. He's gotta be a Shockmancer, or possible a Rhyme-o-mancer.


That's so wonderful isn't it?

Also I can't help but remind everyone that Roger is a traitorous prick. I'm not liking the way the Minds are running this show. It's got the good of all at heart, but they are acting pretty Illuminati-ish (an obvious reference that is finally being fully revealed). They are trying to make a perfect world by manipulating it from the background like the Illuminati, but they are trying to make sure that all units, excuse me, casters only, remain free like myth says the Knights Templar do. I think they are misguided and Roger is one of the leaders dragging the Minds down a dark path. His traitorous, backstabbing ass needs to be taken out and soon before he completely corrupts the Minds.
thanks for this book, I like to get some new facts everyday! http://edit-it.org/blog/10-amazing-secrets-writing-tools-to-find-lost-inspiration has a list of amazing secrets to find your lost inspiration!