Book 3 - Page 190

Always be yourself, unless...

Book 3 - Page 190
Comic - Book 3 - Page 190
Recent posts... (See full thread)
I like both Jamie's more cartoony art style and Xin's more detailed and realistic one. It took me a while to get used to Xin's art, after reading through book one, but it grew on me. David's art resembled Jamie's more than Xin's, and it was pretty good, too.

Also, Jade, you have to say the whole name, "Candlejack". Then you get abdu–
Yall are both doing the meme wrong. You don't type a dash when you leave off the word. After you say "Candlejack" you just go missing in the midd
kaylasdad99 wrote:
Anomynous 167 wrote:

My statement still stands (oddly enough). We can't see Ceasar's feat(s), since we lack the 3-D glasses.

Ummm, is it possible to tip NEGATIVE Shmuckers?

No reason. Just askin'.


Not any more it is. I was able to tip myself schmuckers before, but I reported it to Rob and it was fixed. Got 80 schmuckers from those shenanigans.

Anyway, that candleguy is a myth, nothing bad is going to happen if you just say his name. You have to tell the whole rhyme.

"Though I know I should be wary,
still I'm doing something scary,
summoning darkest black,
Candlejack, Candlejack, Ca
ftl wrote:
Ansan Gotti wrote:

Madhattan has a point.

I always thought that signing the contract was madness for Parson, and it really undermined my view of his brilliance. It was just so one-sided and full of loopholes.

Bringing this point up again, because I have things to say about it. I have two views on this. I'm not sure which I like more, but I alternate between them, or take both. Putting them out there in case people like my interpretations.

My first is that his back was in a way against the wall. As it was then, there was about a 20% chance of Stanley croaking and the side ending. That's very high! When your single point of failure has a 20% chance of failing, and if that happens everybody disbands or goes neutral or barbarian, that's way too high to leave to chance. The contract the was the best Parson could do at the time to get Stanley's odds of survival from 80% to 99.99%.

My second is that believing the contract is solid is part of the suspension of disbelief in reading the comic. Fundamentally, Rob Balder the author cannot write a legal contract that is both loophole-proof and fun to read (and maybe not even the first alone). There's a reason that legal documents IRL are boring and tedious, and it's not because people enjoy being boring and tedious for the heck, it's because specifying everything to the point where there's no loopholes takes a LOT of wording with very precise meanings. Most of us don't *really* want to read a real legal document. So one way for me to interpret the contract is to read the part where it says "the intent of both parties at time of signing is what determines the meaning" and take that as the handwave that the contract is precise enough and the story won't hinge on the specific words used.

The problem with that is that the treaty doesn't appear to have provided Stanley with any protection whatsoever. Even ignoring the size of Charlie's treasury, a veiled archon could have floated right up to Stanley and shot him dead, destroying the side without consequence.

Plus, it was still Stanley's turn and he still had move, they could have had him retreat back to Gobwin Knob, no problem. Or if that was too scary for Hamster, to Org Chart, which was right there on the map of the battlezone, a bare eight hexes away.

So anyway, what's all this business about the name(?) Candlejack?
Man, I'd forgotten about the Candlejack meme. Thanks for brightening my day.

...

He seems to be taking a while, must be getting old or somethi
Beeskee wrote:
DVL wrote:
The thing is that the guy before Xin really started to hit his stride before he left. Xin's definitely more on the photorealistic side of things and the other guy was more abstract, but that wasn't a bad thing.


Not sure if we're the only folks who liked David's art but sometimes it feels that way. :D

Personally I think more constructive criticism and maybe being backed by an actual team would have helped. Rob got really super lucky multiple times in a row, he basically got an Art God who could Do Everything, and then got another one. Every other graphic novel on my shelf has an entire page full of the names of people involved. Sketching, lineart, coloring, shading, lettering, that usually needs a team of folks to do.

I have had mixed feelings about David's art. I didn't like the first seven pages, but after that he started improving his art a lot. I assume that this was the reason why he ultimately left, because his improved style took way more time than he had planned for, but that's just me speculating.

I like his improved style, except for the way he drew Benjamin in that one page where he, Don and Bunny sit together and she's eating cookies at regular intervals. That fragile-looking Benjamin is so vastly different from the lively and powerful guy we've been seeing with Xin.
http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%203/61
So a quick prediction before the next page posts.

Based on the current page's conversation, Caesar will imprison Vanna, as that's the only way we know of to prevent her from casting.

This causes friction with Don, who maybe gets a thinkagram from Charlie.

Enter the Don-Caesar conflict we've been expecting for ages.
Ansan Gotti wrote:

Up to this point, I think we're saying the same thing.


Most of what we're saying is the same. We differ on the interpretation of how an automagically-judged contract applies intent of the signatory versus the intent of the contract's wording at the time it was signed. I think.

Bear in mind that contracts in Stupidworld are not automagically judged, and that "bad faith" in Erfworld pretty much amounts to "being Charlie at the time of signing". :charlie:

I think this is sufficient to account for the differences between our interpretations - and I'm sure that if we were to form an Erf side that existed to draw up contracts between others and judge them in order to cut out the potential for an automagical boop-up, we'd be able to make a stack of gems as well as avoid being wiped out by sides who'd see our services as valuable. Except that Charlie might see us as horning in on his racket.

All in all, I'm inclined to believe that we're approaching the contract from the same essential POV, but perhaps (and probably not intentionally) applying some small bias to our interpretation vis-a-vis our interpretation of bad faith, automagical judgement, and Charlie's personal brand of boopery (and since there are several ways to interpret bad faith alone, that's a bloody minefield, which is why I'm reducing the idea of bad faith in Erfworld to being synonymous with Charlie's personal brand of boopery).

Ansan Gotti wrote:

Based on the current page's conversation, Caesar will imprison Vanna, as that's the only way we know of to prevent her from casting.


Croaking her would probably work. I can see Caesar croaking her and telling Don it was the only way to be sure that Transylvito wouldn't fall that turn. I can see Don reluctantly accepting that, and adding another reason to his personal list entitled "why Charlie is a boopbucket".
Whispri wrote:


So anyway, what's all this business about the name(?) Candlejack?


http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/Candlejack
totalnerduk wrote:
All in all, I'm inclined to believe that we're approaching the contract from the same essential POV, but perhaps (and probably not intentionally) applying some small bias to our interpretation vis-a-vis our interpretation of bad faith, automagical judgement, and Charlie's personal brand of boopery (and since there are several ways to interpret bad faith alone, that's a bloody minefield, which is why I'm reducing the idea of bad faith in Erfworld to being synonymous with Charlie's personal brand of boopery).


I think that's a fair assessment. My underlying point is basically that Charlie is well positioned to know how the thing will likely be automagically adjudicated in any given situation, which gives him a big advantage vis-a-vis entering into the agreement itself, as well as most subsequent dealings with Parson within that contractual framework.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised at all if over the years, Charlie paid a side to enter into a series of 1 Shmucker contracts to test all kinds of things, and bank the knowledge. It's exactly the sort of thing he would do.

Thanks for the discussion!

Quote:
Croaking her would probably work. I can see Caesar croaking her and telling Don it was the only way to be sure that Transylvito wouldn't fall that turn. I can see Don reluctantly accepting that, and adding another reason to his personal list entitled "why Charlie is a boopbucket".


Ha! Croaking her should certainly work. :)