Book 3 - Page 166

A prisoner exchange

Book 3 - Page 166
Comic - Book 3 - Page 166
Recent posts... (See full thread)
Also, it has to be one Betsy was unaware of. So it, uh... It literally can't be 'her aggression' or 'her Warlord nature' because those are things Betsy was aware of and was trying to change. Even if the Jester was a manifestation of that, it was also clearly an agent of something much larger that she didn't know about according to Charlie.
phasedweasel wrote:
So what is your alternate hypothesis? Please explicitly state what you think the "only enemy worth fighting is"? This enemy should be one that you can avoid discovering exists (as Charlie suggests to "avoid finding out"), and be compatible with what we know of the Jester and Charlie's goals. Because right now, Fate is a pretty clear match across the board.

I always thought it was the in-Erfworld representation of a "player" from another reality that is using Erfworld as a game. If you've played MMOs, it's something similar to that except the in-game characters more or less have a genuine consciousness (at least Commander types do) and the "player's" interaction is in the form of advice rather than outright control. There's a book called Mogworld which explores this idea (though it's not quite the same as there the personality of the character is taken over similarly to an MMO).
Count_to_10 wrote:
Finite resources isn't really the issue, particularly in Erfworld, where everyone is killing everyone else off as a matter of religious duty. In the real world, death has more to do with the personal accumulation of problems.
Hypothetically, assuming people could live forever, then it would just be a matter of keeping the reproduction rate to the level of replacement. But you could run into a problem of a stasis, with limited turnover.


Reproduction rate can't be kept at the level of replacement even with finite lifespans.

Undying ruling class and infinity of menial labor for the rest. Yay.
Althernai wrote:
phasedweasel wrote:
So what is your alternate hypothesis? Please explicitly state what you think the "only enemy worth fighting is"? This enemy should be one that you can avoid discovering exists (as Charlie suggests to "avoid finding out"), and be compatible with what we know of the Jester and Charlie's goals. Because right now, Fate is a pretty clear match across the board.

I always thought it was the in-Erfworld representation of a "player" from another reality that is using Erfworld as a game. If you've played MMOs, it's something similar to that except the in-game characters more or less have a genuine consciousness (at least Commander types do) and the "player's" interaction is in the form of advice rather than outright control. There's a book called Mogworld which explores this idea (though it's not quite the same as there the personality of the character is taken over similarly to an MMO).
Scratch my above post, I like this explanation *way* better.
BLP wrote:
Lipkin wrote:
No offense intended. In the circles I travel in, it's become preferable that one calls someone by gender neutral pronouns unless they have instructed you to do otherwise.

I work at a theater, and have been asked to stop using "Ladies and gentlemen" in my introductions.


"Children of all pronouns!" has a certain ring to it, I think.

My boyfriend tells me that in database land, "another" is gaining popularity. As in, "Tick a box to indicate your gender: Man, woman, another". Doesn't work itself into speech very easily, though.

I'd just say "Greetings!" instead of Lady's and Gents. Saying "Fellow Humans" is close, but just makes people question your humanity.
Anomynous 167 wrote:
spriteless wrote:

You could just quote Kinky Boots.
Kinky Boots wrote:
Ladies, gentlemen and those of you who are yet to make up your mind...

You mean Kinny Boots, right? Deadbones' french Pirate Kobold from Urealms Live?

That's a thing? That really is a thing! Named after X-23 and Risky Boots! That may be the most awesome unintentional homonym for a Broadway show.

I've only watched the movie, though. It's about an old style shoe factory finding an unserved niche to survive in the modern world without losing their identity, and also gender-fluidity.
I've thought since Book 2 that Caesar would end up taking over TV and would eventually ally with Parson against what he saw as bigger threats to his realm than GK. Now I'm almost certain of it.

(granted, I didn't think it'd play out quite like this, but who did?)

The 'almost' comes from Rob's tendency to build up to a particular outcome, then throw the readers a curveball about the exact circumstances in which it occurs. We've known for a long time that the MK was going to rise up against Parson's troops and attack them (and that a Quorum would probably be called) but the exact circumstances were something unpredictable.
kaylasdad99 wrote:

Recall that the Charlie-swarm sought out the jester, and when he located it he called it out as the Tool of the Enemy.

"Tool of what Enemy?" asked Betsy.

"The only one worth fighting." said the swarm. "Don't ever find out. Trusst me."

What conclusions are you willling to draw as to the identity of what Charlie saw as "the only enemy worth fighting?" I think it's Fate. Why do you think it's still unclear?


I just reread it. Here:
Quote:

No, the idea of the warlord. The champion. The fighter. It filled her mind. It took a shape.
A surprising shape.
“Trap!” shouted the bald jester. “You fell for it! Get out, get out!”
The little fat clown was back. In the flower dreams, he was impotent. Here in her headspace, he wielded a warhammer and was smashing bugs on everything.


So they are talking about her inner warlord. Her self defense.

Even if you want to think it's no something else it could be her addiction, her instincts, her rebeliousness, whatever.

In fact I find it surprising that her inner warlord fits the description of Stanley the Tool. Maybe Charlie destroyed her fated alliance/friendship with Stanley, the ruler of the side who is fated to take down Charlie or some such. It would explain part of the hatred she has for him.
DVL wrote:
kaylasdad99 wrote:
DVL wrote:


Again, I need to clear misunderstandings. It'd be great if people didn't ignore the context of my posts. I don't dispute that Jojo is Charlie's agent, I'm saying it's faulty to assume that Jojo's views about Fate are Charlie's just because they're business partners and Carnymancers alike.

Only Jojo has ever said anything about "cheating Fate" explicitly and Charlie has never made any explicit statement that shows that he cares about some stupid triumphalism over it.

And free will is bullshit. Parson needs to stop worrying about it.

A recent re-read of the description of Jillian's brain surgery has me questioning your reluctance to reach certain conclusions.

Recall that the Charlie-swarm sought out the jester, and when he located it he called it out as the Tool of the Enemy.

"Tool of what Enemy?" asked Betsy.

"The only one worth fighting." said the swarm. "Don't ever find out. Trusst me."

What conclusions are you willling to draw as to the identity of what Charlie saw as "the only enemy worth fighting?" I think it's Fate. Why do you think it's still unclear?


Did you ever read what the Jester did before that point? Or what Betty's and Charlie's conversation about Jillian's aggression? Or any mention that Jillian recognized the Jester as a defense mechanisms that starting attacking Charlie?


One of the things people latch to for the Jester being a tool of Fate is that Jillian was fated to (at the time) kill Judy and the Jester tried to get her to do it, although she rejected his request.
Fla_Panther wrote:
kaylasdad99 wrote:
My bracer doesn't rate that as plausible.


Wait, wat? How did you ...... where do I get one?

Some cereal. Supposed to be good for you.