Book 3 - Page 164

Dinner and a show

Book 3 - Page 164
Comic - Book 3 - Page 164
Recent posts... (See full thread)
Xarx wrote:
@Dewey: If I'm an overlord in the process of being beaten by my chief warlord, what stops me from disbanding that mofo?

Ask the dumbass Overlord from the Count Crush story. That is something that happened in canon. And whether or not you can Disband that sucker is irrelevant to the fact that this is something that CW's can actually do. Their job is not to mindlessly obey every order their Overlord gives them.
On the subject of whether or not Don suspects Caesar to be disloyal... I'd argue that it doesn't matter if Caesar himself has done anything to give Don reason to suspect him. It's not about what Caesar has or hasn't done. It's about what Don has done... and what Don thinks some one in Caesar's position might do if they realized it.

Caesar is, at this moment in the story, the heir to Transilvito. But he is not a royal... which means that, with Don's new priorities, the leadership position that was once destined to be his is slipping through his fingers. That alone _has_ led to Don and his advisers suspecting Caesar. This is made worse by the fact that his subordinates genuinely like Caesar and are quite loyal to him. So even if Caesar is loyal... there's no telling if one of Caesar's internal allies might take affront to Don's decisions on Caesar's behalf. Maybe only to the point of disobeying the new heir's orders... but still.

It's for these reasons that Don and his advisers agreed to send Caesar to his death on more than one suicide mission... which Caesar managed to escape narrowly each time (fated much?). By now Don has to suspect that Caesar suspects or even outright knows that Don has tried to have him killed. Which gives Don even more reason to be suspicious of Caesar's loyalty.
Mithiwithi wrote:
Corieu wrote:
Why some of you guys are assuming Bunny knows that Charlie can snoop on bats?


She was watching the dinner through twelve bats, when one would do (maybe two or three for redundancy, but twelve exceeds all reasonable need for redundancy). One possible reason for the extra bats is that she wanted to make sure Charlie saw; feel free to suggest alternate hypotheses.

(Incidentally, to be pedantic, Charlie can't snoop on bats in and of themselves. What he can snoop on is Bunny, or presumably any Thinkamancer with access to such units, using Thinkamancy to see through a bat's eyes.)


An explanation would be that it was to get multiple angles to not miss anything and compensate for non 100% eyes on target time while the bats are maintaining the pretense of not watching her specifically.

12 bats gets you 3 angles at a time with each bat watching for 1/4 of the time. That seems reasonable for covert surveillance disguised as "bats being bats".
Dewey the Signamancer wrote:
Xarx wrote:
@Dewey: If I'm an overlord in the process of being beaten by my chief warlord, what stops me from disbanding that mofo?

Ask the dumbass Overlord from the Count Crush story. That is something that happened in canon. And whether or not you can Disband that sucker is irrelevant to the fact that this is something that CW's can actually do. Their job is not to mindlessly obey every order their Overlord gives them.


One can assume in that case that the CW did what Parson did and ordered his Overlord not to disband him, as the Overlord was making decisions that risked the side.
Turtlewing wrote:


An explanation would be that it was to get multiple angles to not miss anything and compensate for non 100% eyes on target time while the bats are maintaining the pretense of not watching her specifically.

12 bats gets you 3 angles at a time with each bat watching for 1/4 of the time. That seems reasonable for covert surveillance disguised as "bats being bats".


As scouting units, any of the warlords could've been watching via 'bat cam', as we see often with Vinny's appearances in the books. Bunny is only required when Don wants to see through a bat's eyes when they're outside of 20 hexes. Considering Erf units seem to have an innate knowledge of unit capabilities and Erfworld mechanics, I'd say it's less about covert surveillance, since Vanna may know that you can 'see' through a scouting unit's eyes and more about having a non-language escort for Don that doesn't interrupt the feeling of having an intimate, private dinner.

Or...

They may have also been in place to keep the bugs in control in case flies or mosquitoes got a bit too pesky. Really, we can keep going down the rabbit hole with speculations.
The fun part about this update is that Don is lying.

Vanna knows he's lying.

He knows she knows he's lying.

But she doesn't know he knows she knows he's lying.
Dewey the Signamancer wrote:
Xarx wrote:
@Dewey: If I'm an overlord in the process of being beaten by my chief warlord, what stops me from disbanding that mofo?

Ask the dumbass Overlord from the Count Crush story. That is something that happened in canon. And whether or not you can Disband that sucker is irrelevant to the fact that this is something that CW's can actually do. Their job is not to mindlessly obey every order their Overlord gives them.

Then I guess the answer to my question is: the knowledge that the side will certainly fall without said mofo.
Xarx wrote:
Dewey the Signamancer wrote:
Xarx wrote:
@Dewey: If I'm an overlord in the process of being beaten by my chief warlord, what stops me from disbanding that mofo?

Ask the dumbass Overlord from the Count Crush story. That is something that happened in canon. And whether or not you can Disband that sucker is irrelevant to the fact that this is something that CW's can actually do. Their job is not to mindlessly obey every order their Overlord gives them.

Then I guess the answer to my question is: the knowledge that the side will certainly fall without said mofo.

I'd say yes, King Scrofula probably had no way of keeping his side intact by disbanding his CWL who also happened to be his heir. Not when Prince Axe was holding a sound battle plan to save the side from what he percieved (and rightly so) to be the real threat to Squashcourt. Parson couldn't be disbanded because he had plans to save the treasury, even if Stanley didn't know what that plan was.

Perspective is probably what keeps uprisings from just being a ruler disbanding the rebels with a single clap of the hands. If Prince Ponzi really thought overthrowing his father was for the good of the side, Don couldn't disband him. From how the coup is talked about it doesn't sound like it ended with a couple disbandings either, so I imagine there was some combat involved.
Lonpone wrote:
Turtlewing wrote:


An explanation would be that it was to get multiple angles to not miss anything and compensate for non 100% eyes on target time while the bats are maintaining the pretense of not watching her specifically.

12 bats gets you 3 angles at a time with each bat watching for 1/4 of the time. That seems reasonable for covert surveillance disguised as "bats being bats".


As scouting units, any of the warlords could've been watching via 'bat cam', as we see often with Vinny's appearances in the books. Bunny is only required when Don wants to see through a bat's eyes when they're outside of 20 hexes. Considering Erf units seem to have an innate knowledge of unit capabilities and Erfworld mechanics, I'd say it's less about covert surveillance, since Vanna may know that you can 'see' through a scouting unit's eyes and more about having a non-language escort for Don that doesn't interrupt the feeling of having an intimate, private dinner.

Or...

They may have also been in place to keep the bugs in control in case flies or mosquitoes got a bit too pesky. Really, we can keep going down the rabbit hole with speculations.


I think the point Turtlewing is making is that one bat staring at the events unfolding while all the other bats around him go about their business is a dead give away. And three bats staring, which would give them several angles to observe from, even more so... even if the three bats were spread out. But if you used twelve bats three at a time you could have one set of three flying in the general direction of the table and then right when they start to get closer than you want have them peal off and have another set of three flying toward the table. Keep cycling to keep the appearance that the bats are just flying around randomly. In a cloud of hundreds of bats it shouldn't draw attention.

Also, I'd point to the Forecastle story as proof that erfworlders are not innately familiar with the capabilities of all units. At most they have innate familiarity with units they are likely to deal with for the region and purpose they were popped.

Finally, what you call speculation I call seeing all the ways the facts we have can be put together and clarifying if any of those ways can be reasonably eliminated based of logic and reason. Don't dismiss speculation. It's where all experimentation begins after all. We wouldn't have science without it. :P
Lonpone wrote:
Turtlewing wrote:


An explanation would be that it was to get multiple angles to not miss anything and compensate for non 100% eyes on target time while the bats are maintaining the pretense of not watching her specifically.

12 bats gets you 3 angles at a time with each bat watching for 1/4 of the time. That seems reasonable for covert surveillance disguised as "bats being bats".


As scouting units, any of the warlords could've been watching via 'bat cam', as we see often with Vinny's appearances in the books. Bunny is only required when Don wants to see through a bat's eyes when they're outside of 20 hexes. Considering Erf units seem to have an innate knowledge of unit capabilities and Erfworld mechanics, I'd say it's less about covert surveillance, since Vanna may know that you can 'see' through a scouting unit's eyes and more about having a non-language escort for Don that doesn't interrupt the feeling of having an intimate, private dinner.

Or...

They may have also been in place to keep the bugs in control in case flies or mosquitoes got a bit too pesky. Really, we can keep going down the rabbit hole with speculations.

We know they weren't there for pest control because they explicitly were not foraging.