Book 3 - Page 141


Book 3 - Page 141
Comic - Book 3 - Page 141
Recent posts... (See full thread)
rezby wrote:
Mnemnosyne wrote:
Thecommander236 wrote:

That's either Dr. Light or Moses. XD As a tool, I can't really give you more context than that since that is a higher rez. Not fair to Rob if I give a wider image.

That doesn't honestly look like Dr. Light to me. I mean, yeah, the hair fits, but the outfit is completely wrong, unless he appears in...caveman one of the games? Dr. Light would be wearing a labcoat.

Honestly, I'm reminded more of Geppetto than any other figure. I remember, as a kid, seeing a cartoon with Geppetto looking kinda like that, and at one point Pinocchio was 'owned' by a spoiled child princess. That's what I'm reminded of. Geppetto holding the princess.

It might have been a Russian cartoon. I remember there was a lot of snow and ice scenes towards the end. I

They're characters from Heidi, Girl of the Alps:
I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out yet, but I just realized: The "Great Minds" are the "GM", even to the point of trying to railroad the plot by having a wide-area distortion field over portal park out of nowhere.

But some players just manage to finagle their way out of the GM's best plans ... trust me, I've played with some :-)
Free Radical wrote:
Crisis21 wrote:
I suspect that 1 rand in a caster's purse takes up the same 'purse-space' as 1 shmucker.

It's a completely different stat point though. Why would it take up any space in a purse at all?

I would say that Rands are closer to gems that can be used solely for upkeep without being able to be manipulated by Moneymancers the way gems can be. Rands are physical objects. DigDoug held one in his hand. Sizemore gave a big sack of them to Janis. Schmuckers do not exist in reality, only in purses and treasuries. You can't touch them. There is no purse limit for Rands, only a limit on how many you can physically carry or store.

Edit: Or I'm completely wrong. Digdoug referred to it as a stat, and Sizemore was picking up his sack, not giving it to Janis. That's why I shouldn't rely on my memory.

Sir Dr D wrote:
There must be some way to conquer a hex, and claim it as yours. How else would farms know which side to send its resources too?

Farms seem to be tied to the nearest city. Ansom thought how the real value of Warchalking was its farms.

Dante wrote:
Well, first of all because I confused Progrock with Warchalking, having mistakenly thought that the cities with music-themed names were part of the original borders. Apparently that only applies to cities named by Stanley.

Anyway, If we assume Jillian takes a route straight back along Gk's tour of conquest, then heads for Bohica on the former border with Unaroyal which should be somewhere in the middle of GK's current territory, then Warchalking and Orgchart are still further west, along with possibly Greenwashing to the southwest because obviously she would have hit it on the way if it were to the south or east.

Jillian is still camped near Bohica when Stanley ambushes her; he'd have to be coming in from somewhere to the north in as straight a line as possible so as not to waste move, and as Jillian's mount would likely still be pointed westerly, we can estimate Stanley's avenue of attack is from the northeast, placing these cities to the west of GK's former capital, including possibly Bohica itself depending on how much move Jillian had left after sacking it.

Interestingly, it may be the war room map itself that sinks my theory, because even though GK has conquered several cities in Jetstone including a capital site, its conquest only extends in that very thin line from GK's border to Spacerock, and doesn't automatically expand to include nearby wilderness hexes, which is kind of bizarre.

For my own benefit, as much as anything, I decided to try to map various locations in and around Gobwin Knob. First I took coordinates we knew for certain, such as the locations of the cities of Charlescomm, Spacerock and Faq. I also took the hex where Jillian croaked the twoll and the hex to which Charlie ordered his archons when Ansom hired him. I plotted these locations on a hex map. Now, we know they do not use cube coordinates. I plotted the map three ways, with offset coordinates, axial coordinates with the axis running from top left to bottom right, and axial with the axis running from top right to bottom left. I then superimposed the map on it, scaling and rotating it to try match the locations of the cities with around where they should be on the map. The map best lined up with the last coordinate system. It isn't perfect. For example, I couldn't get Charlescomm, represented by their crest, within the darker circle where it probably should be while also keeping Faq, represented by their crest, within Faq territory and Spacerock, represented by the radish, within the corridor of Gobwin Knob conquest. Still, this is the best I could do in a relatively short amount of time. I then drew a red arrow starting where Jillian croaked the twoll and ending where the archons rendezvoused with Webinar's group. Those locations are all positioned correctly in relationship to each other. I think the orientation of the map is mostly correct. It allows a portion of Haggar to be east of Jetstone. It also allows WRECD to travel northwest from Faq and remain over land the entire time.

Next I approximately placed the cities of Gobwin Knob, represented by the Stanley star, and Warchalking, the leftmost white circle, which has a w inside it. Since I believe the RCC marshaled their for column near Warchalking (I don't remember where I read it, and maybe I'm wrong) I placed it near the base of the red arrow. Since Webinar was moving towards Gobwin Knob, I placed it in the direction the arrow is pointing. Of course, these locations are approximate or may even be substantially wrong.

Next I placed Orgchart, Bohica, and the hex where Stanley and Jillian battled in relationship to each other. I then moved that layer around so that it fell along a likely path leading from the start of the Gobwin Knob advance into Jetstone territory to Warchalking. I'm inclined to believe it is pretty well positioned east to west. It can't move march farther south since that would put Bohica outside of Gobwin Knob territory, but it could potentially move farther north. It might even be more accurate being farther north, since Parson refers to them being weak in the interior after Jillian sacks Bohica. Moving them north would make them more interior cities. So the white circle second from left is Orgchart, with an o in it, the white circle third from left, with the b in it, is Bohica, and the red x is where Stanley attacked Jillian. As I mentioned, the relationship of those three locations is accurate to each other, but they may move in relation to the rest of the map.

Next I plotted out the other four cities Jillian sacked. The rightmost white circle is Progrock. The second from the right is Brookstone. The two teal circles are the two other cities Jillian razed, but we don't know their names. If I were to guess, I'd say one is either Bridgestone or Firstone. Those were the two Jetstone cities on their border with Unaroyal that were closest to Gobwin Knob. I imagine Gobwin Knob would have captured one but not both of them when they launched their invasion of Jetstone. The other is possibly Unatard. We know it was one of the eleven cities Gobwin Knob controlled before the formation of the RCC. Wrigley traveled from there to Bohica to Warchalking, so Jillian may be taking a similar route. Also, before the formation of the RCC, Gobwin Knob was close enough to croak some Jetstone field units, so their original border was close enough for them to engage each other. I'm making assumptions here, but, whatever city it is, it is probably the original Gobwin Knob city that was closest to Jetstone. Finally, I linked those locations with a teal arrow indicating Jillian's general route.

A few other things to consider. Stanley traveled from Gobwin Knob to the battle hex in a single turn. It then took him three more turns to reach Spacerock. It took Jillian three turns to reach the battle hex from Spacerock. It took her two more turns to reach Faq, although the Minty Mountains require more move to transverse. I am surprised by how far Warchalking is from Gobwin Knob since it is supposed to be the closest city, but I'm not sure if that's something that was stated in the comic or something readers assumed. Before the war with the RCC, Gobwin Knob had eleven cities. After capturing Spacerock, they had sixteen, a net gain of five. I believe that it was stated that Gobwin Knob reclaimed their cities, so those five would be cities they never controlled. We know they captured Unaroyal and Spacerock, which leaves three. If I am correct about their invasion of Jetstone, those other three cities would be Bridgestone/Firestone, Brookstone, and Progrock. That means, with the exception of Unaroyal, Gobwin Knob did not conquer any cities from Unaroyal that weren't part of their territory before the war with the RCC started. Now, that was probably Gobwin Knob at its greatest extent, and some of those cities went back and forth between the sides, such as Unatard and Bohica, but Gobwin Knob's original eastern border is probably pretty close to its current eastern border, with the exception being Unaroyal itself. On the other hand, we know GK conquered Unavac and Motoroyal/Dwagoncon. In order to make the numbers work, it might be a good idea to take Bridgestone/Firestone off the list, or assume whichever city it was was renamed to Brookstone. Since Motoroyal was a level-two city, it was possibly a border city that changed hands and was in GK's possession at the start of the war with the RCC. Unavac was a city that was conquered as GK advanced on Unaroyal therefore it is likely to be a more interior city. Still, that still only makes two additional Unaroyal cities added to GK's original eleven, so their border probably didn't shift too far east. Most Unaroyal cities, such as Unabrow, are probably currently barbarian cities making up the white area on the map.

Edit: Before attacking Unaroyal, Ansom had GK's forces mustering near Unabrow. Wrigley referred to it as mighty Unabrow, so it doesn't seem like a tiny border city. It may have been one of Unaroyal's core cities. Now, that doesn't mean that GK conquered it, but it is a possibility. If they did, we'd need to figure out another city that used to be theirs that they reconquered. Also, as additional support of Unatard's location on the map, it seems to be located east of Hobbittm territory or at least GK territory that Hobbittm could scout.

So, the map is under the spoiler. I hope it works and is legible. Maybe it's substantially flawed. I may have misinterpreted information. My guesses may have been wrong. I may have committed logic errors. Still, I think it's in the general ballpark based on how I've interpreted the information in the comic. Maybe it will be useful to someone, or maybe someone will be able to correct any errors I made and come up with a better one.

Spoiler: show

Edit: It doesn't show up on the forum for me, but when I right-click it and tell it to open in a new tab, it works. Hopefully that'll work for everyone else who is interested.
Maybe you could post the URL? ... p.jpg?dl=0

Edit: I decided to do some revisions to the map. I figured that when Ossomer thought about Bridgestone and Firestone as the closest Jetstone cities to the fighting, that may translate to the closest Jetstone cities to the city of Unaroyal since, at the time, they were debating whether or not to attempt to defend the capital. I placed a Unaroyal flag at a potential location for the city of Unaroyal. I then placed yellow circles to indicate potential locations for Bridgestone and Firestone. Without needing Bridgestone/Firestone to be on the border, I moved Brookestone to the border and Progrock to a wider area of the GK invasion corridor.

One of the teal circles I decided was almost certainly Unatard, so I made it white with a u in it. I really had no idea of where to put the other city Jillian razed. We know Dwagoncon is north of Unatard, but I doubt it was razed since I interpreted Parson's comment about the new pink dwagon to mean it just popped the dwagon, and I doubt if was just razed and rebuilt if there would have been enough time for it to do so. So I didn't want to put the fourth razed city due north of Unatard. I moved the Orgchart/Bohica/battle group north. So, I pretty much just placed it randomly, so there is really no value to its location other than as a reminder that Jillian razed five cities. Since I placed it randomly, I didn't bother redrawing Jillian's route. So, take it for what it's worth. ... d.jpg?dl=0
My version of the map was a little different... This is based on the coordinates said on contract and assuming that the hexes are facing like this from north to south. Using some Trigonometry I adjusted the map to give it the proper orientation. I don't know if there is any difference if you assume that the world is shaped like a cylinder like in Civilization V (it is impossible to make a sphere out of hexes).

I mention this if you want to overlay your suggestions with my version. You don't have to of course. I'm always finding an excuse to show this puppy off. XD

Spoiler: show
Mrtyuh wrote:

Farms seem to be tied to the nearest city. Ansom thought how the real value of Warchalking was its farms.

If Farms were tied to cities then it should show GK owning the territory around Spacerock. But it looks like GK owns SpaceRock, but not the surrounding farms. It might be required to own both the city and farm to get and produce from it, but just taking the city isn't enough.The farm still needs to be claimed.
First, let me say I'm no expert on hex maps. What information I used for mine I got from here. The problem with using trigonometry to figure out locations is that you end up with Faq located in this location.

Spoiler: show
Erf_Map_8_Fixed_for_real with Faq.png

It is very similar to the result I got when I tried using offset coordinates. While my isn't perfect, the closest match I got between the coordinates and the map was using an axial coordinate system there the value of x changed while moving northeast or southwest but remained constant while moving perpendicular to that axis. Just to get a better idea of the rotation, here is the original map at the same rotation.

Spoiler: show
erf-map rotated.png

As I mentioned, an additional advantage of this rotation is it allows Jillian to move northwest in Book 0 in her attempt to circumnavigate Haffaton and remain over land the entire time. Anyway, that's my best estimate at this time, until we get more information. As I did state, though, I may have messed something up and just not realize it.

Sir Dr D wrote:
If Farms were tied to cities then it should show GK owning the territory around Spacerock. But it looks like GK owns SpaceRock, but not the surrounding farms. It might be required to own both the city and farm to get and produce from it, but just taking the city isn't enough.The farm still needs to be claimed.

That is entirely plausible. We really don't know much about farms. We know Charlie has some, even though he only has one city. I think that the output of farms has been stated to go to the capital. Beyond that, not much information. We also know that Warchalking's farms were within a couple of hexes of the city. On the map I did, the invasion corridor ended up being 5-8 hexes wide. If farms are clustered in the hexes around cities, then Gobwin Knob did claim those cities' farms. If they are more scattered, the only got the closest. I really don't know, though.
Point to you. It's a shame that we know the original map is not accurate it though. I'll look through my notes again sometime with what you said in mind.
One thing to add to the Gobwin Knob territorial discussion is that here Ansom states they'd have 14 cities after the capture of Unaroyal. We also know that Gobwin Knob did indeed claim Unaroyal since Parson considered ceding it to Charlie before agreeing to turn to Charlescomm. That means that Gobwin Knob only captured 2 cities after the fall of Unaroyal, and those have to be Progrock and Spacerock. That indicates that Brookstone was 1 of the original 11 Gobwin Knob cities. Given Vinnie's comments about GK only croaking a few Jetstone field units, I'm inclined to believe that Unaroyal originally took it from Jetstone and Gobwin Knob later took it from them. Given that the first time Silvia burned, it was an enemy garrison and we later learned that garrison was at Powerstone. I have a feeling Unaroyal and Jetstone weren't on the best of terms before Stanley provided a common enemy. So, and I may certainly be wrong, the original 11 GK cities when the RCC formed were:

Gobwin Knob
3 others

From Unaroyal they added Unavac, Unabrow and Unaroyal. From Jetstone they added Progrock and Spacerock. I also can't help but be yet again impressed by Jack's Foolamancy given that Ansom seems to have captured Progrock without blowing the veil on the column. I would hazard a guess that, while they may raze and rebuild cities that produce less desirable unit types, the only city they renamed would be Motoroyal/Dwagoncon due to the fact that it wasn't razed and rebuilt, it was destroyed by an inferno and had to be refounded. Of course, I use the term original losely, since we know borders cities are often traded between sides. It might be better to refer to them as GK at its greatest extent before the RCC. Anyway, maybe I'm wrong. If I've made any errors I don't see, please let me know.