Book 3 - Page 136

Please don't use that word.

Book 3 - Page 136
Comic - Book 3 - Page 136
 
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Maybe some twolls pop with the fabrication special and others do not and are sent to war? I remember the war twolls looking a bit bigger.
Guys, I think I may the be actual guy to initially speculate that twolls could make guns with their Fabrication abilities, but at the moment, I'm thinking that they're a Dollamancy accessory due to the self-teaching power that is probably part of the enchantment that gives the bearer the Archery Special.

I don't know if twolls could make guns. If they can't then the requirement of a specific caster is likely to mean that they're not going to be a games changer for GK because they just can't make that many. If twolls can make them, then we might be bringing on the assembly lines. We don't know how much Stuff a twoll can fabricate in a turn, but it doesn't seem to cost juice so it would at least be a way to make the guns that didn't occupy Ace's abilities for all turns from now to Charlescomm Is Invading Now--Too Late.

However, regardless of how easy or hard it would be for GK to make a significant number of firearms, they are still a game-changer because CC has lots of them. However Charlie got them, we know they're considered to be a major force multiplier for his archons and I'd bet real folding money that he's got enough to equip most to all of his units. This absolutely needs to be taken into account as part of any strategy to defeat or defend against Charlescomm.

Of course, the real answer is that gun manufacture works in such a way that drives Parson's strategies and Rob's Story in the direction that he wants it go. But it's no fun thinking in those terms so bring on the speculation on Dollamancers vs twolls.
Kaed wrote:
Darkgolem1 wrote:
Blech. I really like this web comic/story whatev's, but when a story reaches a point where the protagonist can't win, and the reader knows that a miracle has to happen, there isn't any suspense anymore. The story either is over (and with a bad taste in the readers mouth, since the one they rooted for has died or lost or whatever) or it will be won without any sort of achievement... it will just be some other circumstance that has nothing to do with the protagonist growing or otherwise overcoming some obstacle.

Plots are supposed to be :
1. Situation
2. Change in situation which causes conflict
3. The protagonist striving to overcome the conflict by avoiding or overcoming it
4. Attempts to overcome the conflict become more and more stringent (but not succeeding), then
5. The protagonist finally overcoming the conflict (usually through personal growth or some major change in character) and then
6. Resolution of the plot based upon whatever change occurred.

Here, however, the protagonist no longer CAN overcome this conflict, some outside circumstance or force has to do so for (him).

Love this comic, and I'm certain I couldn't do better, but this plot arc has passed into an area where I want it resolved so it can move on to points where the actions of the protagonist can have affect on the outcome.

Pardon the negativity.



You know, I can't say I care much for people who espouse that the only way to write a story is by following some sort of 'conventional plot formula'. It seems to me to be somewhat arrogant and elitist to bash a story because YOU don't feel like it's going in a direction you like or that is 'proper'. This story is far from even finished in THIS book, much less from a real climax. How we save the judgmental remarks about how poorly it's written until we actually reach a resolution? :)


Well I can understand Darkgolem1 concern a little bit. Yes, there are other ways to tell stories. Stories can be just about what the characters experience. (Lord of the rings was largely like that) They can be about personal conflict and growth. They can be about mystery. They can be about character interactions and relationships. They can be about suspense in what happens next.

But book1 does have a completely different tone then the two after it. Book1 made it seem that erfworld was about Parson overcoming conflict after conflict. There can be people who start reading erfworld, because they like that type of story. Then they start getting disinterested when the story is no longer about that. Starting in book 2 Parson is no longer the main character (just one of the characters), and the parts that focus on him is more about his personal growth and experiences then his achievements. Both of these are good formats for stories, but it is a switch. So I can see people wanting the story to go back to what it was when it started, the part that got them interested to be begin with, and have been waiting patiently for that but find it hasn't been happening.

Now there is also likely a lot of people who would love the format that book 2 and 3 have been in. It has been an epic adventure with epic story telling, that would appeal to a lot of people other then gamers. But because they don't like the format of Book1, never get into it. Encouraging those people to start with book 2 could increase Erfworld viewership.

Both Book1, and the format after that have been epic for different reasons. But I wonder how much the switch in formats actually hurts what erfworld as a community could become, and if there is a way around that.
Book 2 and 3 have a more traditional story structure when viewed from the perspective of the royals then the tools.

Right now its almost as if two sides that would traditionally be viewed as villains are duking it out.

Trammennis and Jillian have been recently learning moral lessons through defeat.
Don King is the wise old mentor who is murdered before the climax.

Remember what Parson said "And I always did like to play the bad guys, which we obviously are."
Nightseraph wrote:
Book 2 and 3 have a more traditional story structure when viewed from the perspective of the royals then the tools.

Right now its almost as if two sides that would traditionally be viewed as villains are duking it out.

Trammennis and Jillian have been recently learning moral lessons through defeat.
Don King is the wise old mentor who is murdered before the climax.

Remember what Parson said "And I always did like to play the bad guys, which we obviously are."


Ah, but remember that Stanley tells Parson immediately afterward that there are no heroes and no villains. We've seen quite a bit of that as the side leading the "heroes" at TBfGK turned out to be run by one King Slately, whom the wise old mentor called "a dry turd". There are only a handful of units on Erf who would call Charlie a villain while we know how cruel he can be, and Stanley has shown real growth towards being a caring leader. Stanley was right about there being no bad guys.

I'm also not sure I'd call Don King wise. He's made a lot of poor choices and last we saw his offensive against Carpool had cost him a city and his political choices have alienated him from his chief warlord, threatening a civil war. This wouldn't be his first civil war either, and we know very little about the first uprising except that in that case (as with Caesar now) his most trusted unit is torn on who to side with. If and when Don gets killed it will be his own fault for bankrupting his own side against the wishes of his entire advising staff.
Everyone is right in their own eyes, so of course Stanley wouldnt consider himself a baddie (jihad terrorists think they're rightous, not saying stanley is, just the example) and i would correct that Charlie is regarded as a villain. Many in the MK dont trust him, i do recal there being some exposition on defeating charlie was the fated reason that prason was summoned and many of the great minds see him as a danger.

Charlie is the power house, leet gamer, hacker even, that looks to bend and break rules. Any gamer that is not in that position hates it (curesed spawn campers) sure they are winning by being uber smart and out thinking the rules but they get to burn in a special level of hell... A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk in the theater.
If you make me choose between a world ruled by Charlie, or Ruled by Wanda, I abstain.

Both would be awful.
Agreed, i find it interesting that both of them gain devoted and unwavering loyalty from the units under their command through twisted ideas of love. Charlie has the frat house, cheerleader, the boy band crazy 15 year old, infatuated "love".
Wanda has almost a Stockholm syndrom, mistress, submissive, and certainly sexual hold on her units minds.
Janis as a hippymancer seems to have a better grasp on real love.

So the story that unfolds here in Erf is really one of love, and it certainly is a battle field. Which type of love is good and which one will win?
Charlie is a ruler. Wanda isn't.

Wanda is a minion of Stanley. And Stanley is basically the best employer in Erfworld right now:
-Stanley knows he's not perfect and thus will summon the perfect warlord to lead you.
-Stanley will spend his money on a bunch of scrolls for all sorts of situations, including multiple healomancy scrolls for when you get hurt.
-Stanley will order you healed by a expensive healomancy scroll even if crazy Wanda wants to decrypt you. The arkenpliers are only a last resort item.
-Stanley will give you a job even if you're a bunch of hobos abandoned by other sides.
-Stanley will personally ride out to rescue your ass if you're captured by the enemy.
-PROMOTIONS! No other side promotes units as regularly as the one led by Stanley!
-Swag dwagon mounts, availale in five different colours!
-Free rock concerts every seven turns!

Really, while the other side's units are being caught between ruler-heir conflicts and lack of money, Stanley not only has a giant pile of smuckers, he lets his subordinates spend it as they see fit.
David Hunt wrote:
If they can't then the requirement of a specific caster is likely to mean that they're not going to be a games changer for GK because they just can't make that many.

I agree with most of the assessments in your post, but disagree on the guns not being a game changer for GK if GK can't make them. CC obviously has them, and GK knowing that is huge. With that knowledge alone, Parson can help prepare GK for their next fight. And if they can keep a gun or two, Parson can show other warlords and Stanley exactly what firearms can and can't do.

Even if the guns can't be made by GK, Parson can still make other things. Realizing that guns are possible, he may realize:

1) Why not make a missile? A single large rocket could take out an entire command center on a battlefield, or trash the tower part of a fortified city. A few bazookas would also be big hits. ;)

2) If guns are possible, why not jeeps? Any form of mechanized transportation, even in limited numbers, would be huge in terms of communication, scouting ability, troop movement, and the surprise factor. Dwagons supply this for GK now, but there is a limit to how many dwagons GK can acquire. Especially if GK ever loses Stanley or the 'hammer.

3) Cannons. Proper artillery would be better, but cannons are easier to make. Just a few cannons drastically change siege warfare, not to mention what grape and canister shot do to massed troop formations on open land, and the morale drop when your army is being shelled.

4) Tactics need to change. Flying Archons with rifles = pillboxes and bunkers, covered walkways on fortified walls, etc, manned by troops with crossbows. Anything else will get picked off by rifle fire.

5) With a rifle to show, Parson may be able to get additional support for an alliance against CC. All he has to do is get other rulers to realize what firearms do to spearmen and fear will kick into overdrive.