Book 3 - Page 123

Winner winner chicken dinner

Book 3 - Page 123
Comic - Book 3 - Page 123
Recent posts... (See full thread)
Free Radical wrote:
zilfallon wrote:
ArkenSaw wrote:
the only units we have seen promoted in the field were the living units which Jillian had captured during her raids through GK territory.

The units you're talking about were decrypted.

Jillian made a point to kill all the Decrypted she captured except Ansom. The prisoners were all living units.

Aha, you're right. It seems my memory failed me.
Ozamataz Buckshank wrote:

You really think it's more likely that Charlie Carny'd 600+ Archons without them noticing than it is that he Carny'd one portal? Even in light of the fact that Carnying that one portal also handily explains why bullets would go through the same portal while deflecting off another?

Or, to take another interpretation of what you're saying (I'm not sure which is the one you mean), you think it's more likely that Charlie is capable of changing the rules for all Archons everywhere and did so even though this could benefit sides besides him (he's not the only side with Archons)?


I think Charlie changed the definition of Archons to be a knight class-caster and thus able to enter the portals. And there are very few sides that actually pop Archons besides Charlie and what do you want to bet that Charlie makes sure that those sides don't last long enough to figure out that Archons have been epicly carnyed.

[quote=zilfallon][quote=thaco4]
One thing I haven't seen any one suggest is that Charlie broken the way Archons are defined by Erfworld creating the same pseudo-caster status for all Archons that Parson's has. There are various hints in Magic Kingdom that Archons have the ability to enter the portal without disbandment. Just because the bullet pinged against the portal in front of Charlie's portal has no bearing on if Charlie carnyed his portal (which I'm not dismissing) however in my mind the Portals in portal park and like one-sided doorways. You try to enter one of the portals through the wrong side and you just bounce off. Casters automagically know which side of the portal is the correct side to enter and so don't have the problem of constantly running into a brick wall every time you are going home.[/quote]No. Many casters stated before that using portals of other sides is possible, they just don't do it because it breaks MK laws.[/quote]

Um not what I'm talking about... I'm not saying Side, as in the Side to which the portal belongs to. I'm saying which side of the portal (any portal) you can enter from. Panel 4 People are assuming that the bullet ricocheted because other portals don't allow inanimate objects through. I'm saying that the reason the bullet ricocheted is because on the other side of the portal that way is a wall. In other words that the bullet hit the backside of the portal not the frontside. Take Charlie's portal, if you could enter portals from either side of the portal then you would think that given the explosion that the side Maggie is on would also have explosion residue on that side as well. It doesn't. Think about it like this the portal is a doorway with a wall on one side(backside) and a door on the other(frontside). Now, granted the side that has the door on it is never closed. But if you tried to go through the portal from the back side you will just hit a wall. As shown by every portal room we have seen except Charlie's. Thus it is my conclusion that the Portals can only be entered from via the front side of the Portal and not the backside. Thus was Jojo able to hide behind the portal and know that he was behind the portal because his magical sense told him which side of the portal was the back and which was the front.... Do I need to explain this more?
thaco4 wrote:

Um not what I'm talking about... I'm not saying Side, as in the Side to which the portal belongs to. I'm saying which side of the portal (any portal) you can enter from. Panel 4 People are assuming that the bullet ricocheted because other portals don't allow inanimate objects through. I'm saying that the reason the bullet ricocheted is because on the other side of the portal that way is a wall. In other words that the bullet hit the backside of the portal not the frontside. Take Charlie's portal, if you could enter portals from either side of the portal then you would think that given the explosion that the side Maggie is on would also have explosion residue on that side as well. It doesn't. Think about it like this the portal is a doorway with a wall on one side(backside) and a door on the other(frontside). Now, granted the side that has the door on it is never closed. But if you tried to go through the portal from the back side you will just hit a wall. As shown by every portal room we have seen except Charlie's. Thus it is my conclusion that the Portals can only be entered from via the front side of the Portal and not the backside. Thus was Jojo able to hide behind the portal and know that he was behind the portal because his magical sense told him which side of the portal was the back and which was the front.... Do I need to explain this more?

OK I understand what you mean now. It seems possible, but what are the chances that every bullet hit a random portal's "backside"? Portals in portal park look like they are randomly placed, so I find it hard to believe that every portal is facing the same general direction.

Also, some events suggest that the portal is not working like other portals do. Parson & Isaac were not surprised when their toy soldier was able to enter Charlie's portal, when they were surprised when it managed to come back.
thaco4 wrote:
Ozamataz Buckshank wrote:

You really think it's more likely that Charlie Carny'd 600+ Archons without them noticing than it is that he Carny'd one portal? Even in light of the fact that Carnying that one portal also handily explains why bullets would go through the same portal while deflecting off another?

Or, to take another interpretation of what you're saying (I'm not sure which is the one you mean), you think it's more likely that Charlie is capable of changing the rules for all Archons everywhere and did so even though this could benefit sides besides him (he's not the only side with Archons)?


I think Charlie changed the definition of Archons to be a knight class-caster and thus able to enter the portals. And there are very few sides that actually pop Archons besides Charlie and what do you want to bet that Charlie makes sure that those sides don't last long enough to figure out that Archons have been epicly carnyed.


You're assuming that Charlie changed an entire class of units, for all sides the moment they're popped (which soudns like Retconjuration instead of mere Carnymancy), that was able to conceal it from both his Archons as well as from other sides employing Archons, that he probably made sure that the latter sides don't last long enough to find out, that he carnied the guns to fire out of portals as well, that he carnied the DEBRIS to pass through the portal, that each of the bullet shot out of his portal happen to hit the 'back-side' of other portals, and that he managed to find some alternate way for the scout golem from way back to make it back to the MK despite that being normally considered not possible.

While your pet theory is not impossible, there's a far simpler alternate explanation—Charlie carnied his portal to let anything through it. A single assumption.
zilfallon wrote:
OK I understand what you mean now. It seems possible, but what are the chances that every bullet hit a random portal's "backside"? Portals in portal park look like they are randomly placed, so I find it hard to believe that every portal is facing the same general direction.

Also, some events suggest that the portal is not working like other portals do. Parson & Isaac were not surprised when their toy soldier was able to enter Charlie's portal, when they were surprised when it managed to come back.

The golem might have been able to cross through portals specifically because it was a golem, and their surprise was because it disobeyed orders--it was ordered to return to Gobwin Knob overland. Why, you might ask? Maybe it had a secondary objective to scout out the territory between GK and Charlescomm.

It seems to me that they should not have known if all units can leave the Magic Kingdom and not just casters--at best, they could have tried sending uncroaked or something through; something that they could create in the Magic Kingdom. I imagine that units created through a caster's discipline, like golems or uncroaked, can pass through as if they were objects, and if that is the case, there is no reason to treat coming and going as separate.
Anybody got a complete picture of the mechanics of "seeing" a unit's stats? Does everyone (Parson excluded) have the ability to see everyone else's stats? Or is that limited to Rulers, warlords, casters, and other types of commanders? Does Side or Alliance status enter into it?

Let's say I just popped as a stabber in one of GK's cities. Do I have the ability to see my own stats and the stats of my fellow stabbers? What about the stats of, say, a passing unit who's escaped from Haggar and is a fugitive trying to get to Carpool? None of my business, right? I'm under no obligation to interfere with the fugitive (so long as it isn't foraging GK's wild berries, or something). But can I see the unit's stats? Can I tell if the unit is a piker, or an archer, or a warlord, or a caster?

All these leading questions are, of course, aimed at determining whether Carnymancy-buffed archons should be seen as such by everyone, or a select group, or anyone at all.

My opinion is that arguments for the Archon unit type having been surreptitiously Carnymancied into casters (rather than a single Portal having been surreptitiously tampered with) rely on a chain of reasoning that is Rube Goldberg-esque in its complexity.
dholm wrote:
It seems to me that they should not have known if all units can leave the Magic Kingdom and not just casters--at best, they could have tried sending uncroaked or something through; something that they could create in the Magic Kingdom. I imagine that units created through a caster's discipline, like golems or uncroaked, can pass through as if they were objects, and if that is the case, there is no reason to treat coming and going as separate.


If that was the case, I don't think they would believe GK and the 'Pliers brought war into MK. Any caster or ruler could do that with golems and uncroaked. The impression I get from MK in the comic so far is that it has been peaceful until GK, which is why they hate them so much.

Of course, we don't have proof whether MK was attacked before or not, but what we were shown so far suggests that GK is the first.

In addition, if golems etc. could pass through portals, Parson wouldn't have carried the corpses to MK to decrypt them there. He would simply tell Sizemore to construct a fort and then move the decrypted there. Assuming that neither Parson nor any of the casters there know if golems/uncroaked could pass portals or not is too much.

The rule is that only casters and objects can pass. Golems are units, uncroaked are units. Whether they are living or not doesn't change the fact that they are non-caster units.

On the other hand, I think I broke my F5 button :(
zilfallon wrote:
dholm wrote:
It seems to me that they should not have known if all units can leave the Magic Kingdom and not just casters--at best, they could have tried sending uncroaked or something through; something that they could create in the Magic Kingdom. I imagine that units created through a caster's discipline, like golems or uncroaked, can pass through as if they were objects, and if that is the case, there is no reason to treat coming and going as separate.


If that was the case, I don't think they would believe GK and the 'Pliers brought war into MK. Any caster or ruler could do that with golems and uncroaked. The impression I get from MK in the comic so far is that it has been peaceful until GK, which is why they hate them so much.

Golems and uncroaked are not intelligent. They have no agency on their own. The situation is not at all the same.

zilfallon wrote:
In addition, if golems etc. could pass through portals, Parson wouldn't have carried the corpses to MK to decrypt them there. He would simply tell Sizemore to construct a fort and move the decrypted there. Assuming that neither Parson nor any of the casters there know if golems/uncroaked could pass portals or not is too much.

The decrypted are not uncroaked or golems. They have intelligence and agency. I do not think they would count as units, but I could see golems and uncroaked do so.
zilfallon wrote:
thaco4 wrote:

Um not what I'm talking about... I'm not saying Side, as in the Side to which the portal belongs to. I'm saying which side of the portal (any portal) you can enter from. Panel 4 People are assuming that the bullet ricocheted because other portals don't allow inanimate objects through. I'm saying that the reason the bullet ricocheted is because on the other side of the portal that way is a wall. In other words that the bullet hit the backside of the portal not the frontside. Take Charlie's portal, if you could enter portals from either side of the portal then you would think that given the explosion that the side Maggie is on would also have explosion residue on that side as well. It doesn't. Think about it like this the portal is a doorway with a wall on one side(backside) and a door on the other(frontside). Now, granted the side that has the door on it is never closed. But if you tried to go through the portal from the back side you will just hit a wall. As shown by every portal room we have seen except Charlie's. Thus it is my conclusion that the Portals can only be entered from via the front side of the Portal and not the backside. Thus was Jojo able to hide behind the portal and know that he was behind the portal because his magical sense told him which side of the portal was the back and which was the front.... Do I need to explain this more?

OK I understand what you mean now. It seems possible, but what are the chances that every bullet hit a random portal's "backside"? Portals in portal park look like they are randomly placed, so I find it hard to believe that every portal is facing the same general direction.

Also, some events suggest that the portal is not working like other portals do. Parson & Isaac were not surprised when their toy soldier was able to enter Charlie's portal, when they were surprised when it managed to come back.


We only see one portal actually hit with the bullets all the rest that were on their way towards hitting a portal are not actually shown as having hit the portal. Where are you getting that every bullet which hit a portal was halted from passing through? There could be a random side who just had a bullet come flying out of their portal and croaked a random caster. We have no proof otherwise.
Bravo. NEVER would I have guessed that I could be made to find chicken reproduction several times more fascinating for a moment than the main plot.