Book 3 - Page 114

Кала́шников - from Charlescomm with love

Book 3 - Page 114
Comic - Book 3 - Page 114
Recent posts... (See full thread)
wvscififan wrote:
Chris Goodwin wrote:
wvscififan wrote:
Wouldn't Jack need to be in the same hex as the illusion he is creating? He's master class, so if anyone could do it, he could, but if i understand erfworld mechanics in this case, he won't be able to cast cross-hex - and the portal room would be cross-hex.


.... Marie. Given the need to veil a unit of similar size and shape... Marie is almost Parson's size, isn't she?

Edited to add: Jack veils Marie, Marie crosses through. Veiled units can cross hex borders and stay veiled, right?

Jack could definitely do that - except that Marie would be an agent of GK and cause GK to be in breach again.

What?? Jack directly said that he could only change what the person already sees. Such as making a similar thing look like another. Or making more dwagons flying overhead than their really are. Not making something where there's nothing at all. If there's no head poking through the portal then there's no way to disguise it as someone else. If the illusion is too unbelievable it won't work.

It was a text update where Jack made a striped colored dwagon overhead.
http://archives.erfworld.com/Book%202/15

Edit: correction. It's not that section of text, but somewhere. I just don't have time to hunt it down. It's the reason why Bogroll had to be disguised as Parson for the parley trap. He was the only one close enough to Parson's physique.
As far as one side picking units from the other side, how would they know what units they can pick? Charlie would be set up better than anyone else for that with his intelligence network and the dish, but I really doubt sides know the exact units of another side. GK/Parson knows CC has a city, a ruler, all sorts of archons and I think some golems that we've never seen. How would GK pick if they had the chance to?

Even if they could somehow do it, there would almost certainly have to be a delay while they decide. Perhaps the choices have to be made at the start of their turn, or something else. They could make up list before a breach occurs, but how would they be prepared for more than one breach, or even know how much is left in the other side's treasury? I found it curious that Charlie knew GK would be losing units on the next breach (if that was what he really meant by claiming Lilith on the next one), but I have my suspicions about that too. He has the dish as well, and maybe he knows all kinds of things like that, so I'm not gong to stress too much about it.

If they really can pick specific units, that could be exploitable in several ways. Find a group of a few dozen out in the field, select all the ones with leadership and some grunts, then just have them be auto-attacked by the other unled ones. Rinse and repeat with different variations until you have the whole side.

It gets even messier in a city. If you pick a city, but not enough units to keep it, the other side can retake it again. Or the reverse with picking leadership in the city as above, and then claiming the city as a bonus when the dust settles.

I'm not bothering to include high value targets, like rulers or the crew in the MK, since I also am wondering how a unit's value (or city for that matter) is calculated. We know things like upkeep, city production, amounts received from sacking/razing, barter value of items and units, but not the actual mechanical value of something. Saying someone will pay or trade X amount for something isn't the same as actual value for the contract.

Then there are things like if items possessed by units are included in the unit value (Parson's bracer and glasses, or any of the tools). Those range from Sizemore's guess of several hundred thousand to priceless as far as barter value, but do they have a "blue book" price? Also, can we really factor in the cost of the spell to summon Parson? I think he's made up for that and more so far, so I really have no clue there.

If I look at it from the other side, and assume the contract picks everything (except confidentiality breach cities), the same problems with causing more breaches could happen with units switching in the middle of others. Hopefully someone could order both sides to not engage in time there. A ruler would know when a unit or city changed sides, but would have to give a fast "do not engage" order to avoid more breaches. I don't know if standing orders from before to not engage would always work if a stack lost leadership, and an enemy suddenly was in their face.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the contract handles all of this if/when things start changing hands.
Gorgon wrote:

Even if they could somehow do it, there would almost certainly have to be a delay while they decide. Perhaps the choices have to be made at the start of their turn, or something else. They could make up list before a breach occurs, but how would they be prepared for more than one breach, or even know how much is left in the other side's treasury? I found it curious that Charlie knew GK would be losing units on the next breach (if that was what he really meant by claiming Lilith on the next one), but I have my suspicions about that too. He has the dish as well, and maybe he knows all kinds of things like that, so I'm not gong to stress too much about it.
...
I'm looking forward to seeing how the contract handles all of this if/when things start changing hands.


It would have been easy for Charlie to know how much was left of GK's treasury because every breach was below the maximum of 5 mil. The stated amount if a side has less than 10 mil was half the treasury or 500k minimum. With the first 2 breaches being exactly half the treasury, it was obvious the exact amount +/- 1 schmucker. What surprised Charlie was that the amount was high enough for him to lose more than one FFF archon and still not get units or cities.

Rereading the contract on breaches, the only place I can find where someone has a choice is under breach of Confidentiality though, and the other side gets its pick of which one city it gets to claim. All other breaches just states an equivalent value of units and/or cities to be automagically transferred.
Since I am getting into wild speculation stuff, what do unled units consider as enemies? The wiki says "Any two sides that not in alliance and considered hostile are called enemies." How does the "considered hostile" bit factor into it? Is there some formal war declaration mechanic I haven't seen yet?

When leadership is involved, they can make decisions about things like that based on previous orders and the situation, but unled units supposedly always attack "the enemy". Again, I have no idea if previous orders to act differently would work, or how well.

*Edits* In the last part of Lord Crush - Part 2, Crush could see the "enemy stats" of Squashcourt as soon as they broke the alliance, by not allowing him to leave. If the Firstpost units were unled, I wonder if that would be enough for them to auto-attack.

Basically I'm wondering when CC became a side GK was at war with (the enemy). Also, how all units on GK's side would decide if they are, or aren't, hostile. Would it take a ruler, or their leaders saying they should be considered hostile, or "CC is the enemy now"? It may be as simple as that.
wvscififan wrote:
It would have been easy for Charlie to know how much was left of GK's treasury because every breach was below the maximum of 5 mil. The stated amount if a side has less than 10 mil was half the treasury or 500k minimum. With the first 2 breaches being exactly half the treasury, it was obvious the exact amount +/- 1 schmucker. What surprised Charlie was that the amount was high enough for him to lose more than one FFF archon and still not get units or cities.

Rereading the contract on breaches, the only place I can find where someone has a choice is under breach of Confidentiality though, and the other side gets its pick of which one city it gets to claim. All other breaches just states an equivalent value of units and/or cities to be automagically transferred.

Actually that makes sense, since we did the same to figure out GK's treasury when it happened, so call it a blonde moment for me. :oops:
I don't remember Charlie ever being surprised about it though.

I also specifically mentioned the confidentiality part where it says the compliant party chooses. I was only trying to address all the speculation so far about him getting to pick anything. His comment about picking Lilith as recompense has stirred up quite a bit of it.

*Edits* I'm trying to figure out how it would work, not if he can. Like I said, he would know more about GK's units than GK knows about CC's, so he could possibly pick specific ones more easily. Flip it around though, and look at how GK could do it without knowing any unit info besides "CC has archons and golems". Previous intel from the GK Decrypted ones would probably help, but that is something like 20 turns old too.
True, Charlie probably wasn't exactly surprised - but he did say
Quote:
I knew we'd get hurt at the start, but I didn't imagine losing her [Fifi] and Belle.


I like the idea that was proposed that Stanley happened to hire the Juggle Elves at that exact instance that Jack noticed the treasury was empty. Whether or not that is correct, we shall see - hopefully sooner rather than later. Who knew that a web comic would generate so much debate about legal contract enforcement :p
I only started posting here again when the contract came into it. It definitely has led to a lot of speculation. I doubt we'll see most of it resolved before the new year, if ever.

I only hope Rob gives us a pwesent in time for Christmas with at least a big reveal or answers to things. I don't count Charlie appearing as CB being a big reveal because of a) the timing with Charlie Brown's 50th anniversary that week, and b) I think he changes appearance (Signamancy) depending on the situation. Still, it was cool, and got the speculation monster growling even more. ;)

*Edits* Or Rob could be really mean, and pull a "Meanwhile, in Jetstone the brothers play cards" for the next update. I wonder how many readers have real pitchforks and torches in the basement? :twisted:

Who needs epic battles and speculation when there is Broamancy!
Gorgon wrote:
*Edits* Or Rob could be really mean, and pull a "Meanwhile, in Jetstone the brothers play cards" for the next update. I wonder how many readers have real pitchforks and torches in the basement? :twisted:

Who needs epic battles and speculation when there is Broamancy!

Tramennis and Tramennis sit down together for a friendly game of strip poker?
Gorgon wrote:
Who needs epic battles and speculation when there is Broamancy!


Bro.
Gorgon wrote:
Flip it around though, and look at how GK could do it without knowing any unit info besides "CC has archons and golems". Previous intel from the GK Decrypted ones would probably help, but that is something like 20 turns old too.


Perhaps the contract contains a natural magic, perhaps thinkamancy, which confers the same knowledge the opposing ruler would have on the contract user. They automagically known the name and position of all cities and units, then once the contract is over they automagically forget. If all contracts did this, Charlie wouldn't need to specify it, and Parson never asked.