Book 3 - Page 111

"You could pull a Jack."

Book 3 - Page 111
Comic - Book 3 - Page 111
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One reasons I suspect sides dislike predictormancers/dateomancers is that a ruler has to trust them and give away a lot of his/her decision making ability for them to be effective.
And I suspect its really hard to trust a newly popped unit / someone you just met.
It is ironic that rulers dislike datemancers. That makes it sound like the datemancer is not very good. You would think a datemancer would be an expert at getting people to like them.


And another reason people may dislike Predictamancers is regular rules may start going wonky when they are around. (similar to Carnymancers) Think about as if you are a gamemaster, and the player casts a divination spell and asks about the future. Now you as the GM, even though you would pick an answer that is likely to occur, now have to influence things to see that it does occur. In erfworld terms, just having a Predictamncer around who would be constantly asking questions about the future would increase the number of events that are fated, interfering with regular battle strategy. Learning about an impending attack through lookamancy for example would make it easier to avoid.
Sir Dr D wrote:

And another reason people may dislike Predictamancers is regular rules may start going wonky when they are around. (similar to Carnymancers) Think about as if you are a gamemaster, and the player casts a divination spell and asks about the future. Now you as the GM, even though you would pick an answer that is likely to occur, now have to influence things to see that it does occur. In erfworld terms, just having a Predictamncer around who would be constantly asking questions about the future would increase the number of events that are fated, interfering with regular battle strategy. Learning about an impending attack through lookamancy for example would make it easier to avoid.


That would be based on the misunderstanding of predictamancy though, since predicting something doesn't make the prediction fated to happen, predicting something meant it was fated to happen whether it was predicted or not (which would be unlike how it would end up working in a role-playing game). I think both the necessary evasiveness of the discipline and the inability to change predicted outcomes is enough for people to dislike predictamancy.
About Lilith something I've always wanted to say, I think her name proves Charlie isn't from Earth, Charlie is a really smart guy so if he were from Earth he could have seen the hinting in Llilth's name and decide she was more trouble than she was worth and disbanded her on the turn she popped.
Glome wrote:


That would be based on the misunderstanding of predictamancy though, since predicting something doesn't make the prediction fated to happen, predicting something meant it was fated to happen whether it was predicted or not (which would be unlike how it would end up working in a role-playing game).


We don't know that. What predictamancy and fate is in erfworld is still a mystery. Yes some things are probably fated and are going to happen regardless. That doesn't mean everything that a predictamancer predicts though was fated. Some of it could just be fated once the predictamancer predicts it. Otherwise Marie helping to keep FAQ hidden couldn't have been as accurate as it was. She would have only been able to tell Jack to cast veils in incidents where it was fated for an army to travel close. But she seemed to have some spell that would give her an answer every time. I see a Predctamancer as being like a divination wizard or cleric, where if they ask an applicable divination question the game master comes up with an answer, which then has to be true. But of course the questions that can get asked are limited, and would depend on the level of the Predictamancer.
Prodigial Knight wrote:
About Lilith something I've always wanted to say, I think her name proves Charlie isn't from Earth, Charlie is a really smart guy so if he were from Earth he could have seen the hinting in Llilth's name and decide she was more trouble than she was worth and disbanded her on the turn she popped.

Firstly, Erfworld might be connected to more than 1 version of Earth. Judy Gale has the same body proportions as Erfworlders, which would suggest she comes from a different version than Parson. It's possible that those alternate Earths do not have as many references to take advantage of.

Secondly, even if he did spot the Signamancy, he might have assumed the Arkendish's bindings would have overridden it. And it did, until the Arkenpliers got involved. This is almost certainly the entire reason he only uses archons in the first place and considers it such a high priority to figure out how Lilith broke free.
Sir Dr D wrote:
Glome wrote:


That would be based on the misunderstanding of predictamancy though, since predicting something doesn't make the prediction fated to happen, predicting something meant it was fated to happen whether it was predicted or not (which would be unlike how it would end up working in a role-playing game).


We don't know that. What predictamancy and fate is in erfworld is still a mystery. Yes some things are probably fated and are going to happen regardless. That doesn't mean everything that a predictamancer predicts though was fated. Some of it could just be fated once the predictamancer predicts it. Otherwise Marie helping to keep FAQ hidden couldn't have been as accurate as it was. She would have only been able to tell Jack to cast veils in incidents where it was fated for an army to travel close. But she seemed to have some spell that would give her an answer every time. I see a Predctamancer as being like a divination wizard or cleric, where if they ask an applicable divination question the game master comes up with an answer, which then has to be true. But of course the questions that can get asked are limited, and would depend on the level of the Predictamancer.


The way I see it is Fate is like the way I run some of my D&D campaigns. I've written up a set of certain events and encounters that I want the PCs to face, but it doesn't really matter where, when, why, or how. So Fated events are like that. A prediction might be "You're going to be ambushed by Dwagons in the next 10 turns," and by George, Fate will make that happen even if it needs to make them Crap Dwagons created from a Dirtamancy Spell gone wrong.

And from what it sounds like, Predictamancers can only see limited things. But they can tend to see the right things. Like "City A will have the 'forces nearby' event next" but not what happens in between those events that Fate has decreed are important.

Just my 2 (non-existent) Canadian cents. :mrgreen:
ManaCaster wrote:

Firstly, Erfworld might be connected to more than 1 version of Earth. Judy Gale has the same body proportions as Erfworlders, which would suggest she comes from a different version than Parson. It's possible that those alternate Earths do not have as many references to take advantage of.


Well, originally Judy went native. It was only when Tin Man and Scarecrow lost their minds that she wanted to leave. Since Parson is affected by Signamancy it only stands to reason that Judy was as well, especially after as many turns as she spent in Erf.

It could be that the only reason Parson isn't shrinking is the Heavy special. Since he has gone native too, with no real interest in returning to Ohio.
ManaCaster wrote:

Firstly, Erfworld might be connected to more than 1 version of Earth. Judy Gale has the same body proportions as Erfworlders, which would suggest she comes from a different version than Parson. It's possible that those alternate Earths do not have as many references to take advantage of.

Secondly, even if he did spot the Signamancy, he might have assumed the Arkendish's bindings would have overridden it. And it did, until the Arkenpliers got involved. This is almost certainly the entire reason he only uses archons in the first place and considers it such a high priority to figure out how Lilith broke free.


I think the most common assumption I've seen here was that because Judy Gale was summoned to Erfworld as a child, her body proportions matched that of native Erfworlders, and any body changes after that were from signamancy. I believe it has been established that there is a whole multiverse out there to summon people from, but having a third reality to deal with seems like it would needlessly complicate the story for too little gain, thus why I think it is unlikely even though it is possible.

As for Charlie being an Erfworlder vs an Earthworlder, on one hand he has used terms more appropriate from earthworlders and the wizard which he is partly modeled after is from earth in the story. On the other hand, nobody seems to know anything odd about his origins, not even his own daughter whom had plenty of reason to learn as much about the man as possible before he became secretive and paranoid. At the very least I would think someone would have noticed the lack of visible stats if Charlie was summoned like Parson. And whether Charlie knew about Lilith's signamancy or not, we have no indication yet of him using signamancy to his advantage.

Anyway, I personally think Charlie is a native erfworlder who might be able to pick up signals from other universes with the dish.
ftl wrote:

If she had a Prediction she was acting off of, I bet it wasn't about her. It wasn't "You will be incapacitated by an explosion today", but more likely "Parson will be within range of an explosion today" (which gives her a chance to screen him.)


She did have a Prediction. She's had one for quite a while -- the last time there was a confrontation at Portal Park actually: https://wiki.erfworld.com/LIAB_90