Book 3 - Page 106

They seemed unimpressed.

Book 3 - Page 106
Comic - Book 3 - Page 106
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MostlyBrownBeard wrote:
Infidel wrote:

Of course I gotta say it again.

Maggie, Wanda, Parson LINKUP!


That might be difficult to employ effectively without violating the treaty, but Marie's presence presents an opportunity, given that she isn't a GK unit, and that, being incapacitated, presumably Maggie is trivially easy to capture. Suppose Marie "captures" Maggie, enters CC's portal with both of them being barbarian units, and then uses the healing scroll, releasing Maggie from capture and allying with GK, putting them in CC city without violating the letter of the cease-fire. After all, Marie knew it wasn't time for the scroll, yet.

What could a predictamancer-thinkamancer linkup accomplish, particularly in the same hex as Lilith? Would they be able to fed Lilith real-time predictions of the other Archon's actions so she could evade capture better (like the D&D Psionic handbook's reasoning for psionic dodge bonuses, which is the sort of thing Parson would presumably know)? Would they be able to predict and therefore divert / protect against another thinkamancy assault?


I don't think she even has to capture Maggie, she just has to carry the Maggie's incapacitated body, as Maggie wouldn't be "employed" there nor is Marie an agent of gobwyn knob.

And maybe maggie could stick her hand through the portal, link-up with wanda and mass decrypt the city of charlescomm that way. Maybe Charlie even keeps archon's body in a morgue.
ManaCaster wrote:
dholm wrote:

He was threatening to kill him in the same breath, and he had plenty of opportunity to take the garrison and net Parson by force. The evidence suggests that at the time, Charlie didn't know who and what Parson is.

Charlie tends to make all sorts of threats to pressure people into doing what he wants them to. That doesn't necessarily mean he isn't bluffing.

He could have been, yes. But then you need to ask yourself why he would do so.

ManaCaster wrote:
If Charlie is willing to use warlords, then why doesn't he already have one as Chief if for no other reason than the CW bonus?

Because he wouldn't be able to get use out of it, probably. Charlie operates in small groups spread all over the world; the Chief Warlord bonus only applies to units in the same hex.

That is only speculation, though. Who's to say that he doesn't employ carnynancy to appoint himself as Chief Warlord?
dholm wrote:

He could have been, yes. But then you need to ask yourself why he would do so.

To see if he can manoeuvre the Perfect Warlord into the right position to do to him what he did to Jillian. Or just evict him.

dholm wrote:

ManaCaster wrote:
If Charlie is willing to use warlords, then why doesn't he already have one as Chief if for no other reason than the CW bonus?

Because he wouldn't be able to get use out of it, probably. Charlie operates in small groups spread all over the world; the Chief Warlord bonus only applies to units in the same hex.

https://wiki.erfworld.com/LIAB_Prologue_12
Quote:
His leadership would add three attack to all units on his side, five to those in his hex, and ten to those in his own stack.


And it isn't even just warlords. Charlie only uses archons (which are bound to the Arkdish) and golems (which are mindless), and he spent a huge amount of effort to figure out why Lilith doesn't love him anymore. Even if other sides are only interested in hiring his archons, that still doesn't explain why he doesn't keep other options on the table for other jobs. Courtiers to manage the city and run errands, warlords to defend the capital itself, casters belonging to the disciplines Charlie uses most often, etc.
MostlyBrownBeard wrote:


What could a predictamancer-thinkamancer linkup accomplish, particularly in the same hex as Lilith? Would they be able to fed Lilith real-time predictions of the other Archon's actions so she could evade capture better (like the D&D Psionic handbook's reasoning for psionic dodge bonuses, which is the sort of thing Parson would presumably know)? Would they be able to predict and therefore divert / protect against another thinkamancy assault?


Hrm, my linkup suggestion is recon and remote leadership. If you want to propose an attack then this is what I'd do.

Assuming Lilith makes it to portal room.
1. Have Wanda go barbarian. This would have the wonderful effect of changing Lilith's side without changing her livery, so it should confuse any archons present. Liliith starts shooting Archons at will piling up freebies, since the Archons will not defend at first.
2. Push Maggie through portal. She is incapacitated so it should not breach the contract.
3. Have Lilith drop Maggie on a trap. 5 Million to GK.
4. Wanda steps through Decrypt all bodies present.
5. Parson steps through with heal scroll -500k GK. Stack with Wanda, attack, save scroll for Wanda.
Long-time lurker here, arising to answer one important question. (I Predict it has already been mentioned sometime somewhere back before, but oh well.)

Re: Charlie doesn't employ Chief Warlord, nor even any units other than Archons or golems.
I believe the answer lies in, to quote Lord Crush: "philosophical exploration of the role of Duty in non-command units". As in, every single thinking unit (combat or not!) can potentially turn against the Ruler if he believes that serves the side; and in the case of a Chief Warlord, it is well-known that in specific cases he has authority to override the Ruler. A Chief Warlord could replace Charlie on his throne for a moment. (Figuratively, of course, unless said Warlord was also a designated heir.) That is unacceptable.

Given that Charlie is in the business of eliminating any possibilities of defeat, and a tiny opening is supposedly all that Fate needs to kill him, I can easily see him deciding never ever to employ anyone susceptible to that. Archons? Brainwashed easily, thanks to Natural Thinkamancy (this might serve as indirect evidence they are the only units with Natural Thinkamancy abilities (non-basic) - or that of all units with Natural Thinkamancy they are the most vulnerable to mind domination). Golems? Mindless. The only question comes to using contracted casters, but I guess if they are not part of the side (indirect evidence of possibility of 'civil war' chain reaction? would fit with the "tiny chance" theme, as well as "individual chambers" order for escorting Archons - I presume they are all to be disbanded or eliminated otherwise - and stopping Lilith the moment she tried to disclose his secrets (verbally! to those in the ear-shot! each of whom could also theoretically be detained later) ) it doesn't matter, as long as they are kept well-away from the side itself.

An interesting point that this speculation brought up for me is that Charlie should've made more use of uncroaked. There is a number of reasons why that wouldn't work - Croakamancy isn't one of Archon specials, meaning that a caster would be needed; it might be bad for PR, and Charlie's reputation is worth money to him (and money... etc.); they are not sustainable in the long run; and so on. But the fact that they are mindless (and, bonus points, 'cheap to feed'; an all-time classic! :P ) makes me think he'd find them worth employing. Perhaps now especially, since he has just investigated (with debatable success) how decrypted bodies work, and could create semi-decrypted? Don't decay over time, but still devoid of mind. Maybe even retain abilities like casting.

And with that, I vanish back into shadows! Hopefully, the speculation above was of some use.
Infidel wrote:
... but it would also give him direct experience of how magic works in erfworld. Which should be much more useful than any explanations.


Hasn't it been shown that the casters don't remember much about their expanded understanding of magic when they're linked once they've stopped being linked?
MostlyBrownBeard wrote:
Infidel wrote:

Of course I gotta say it again.

Maggie, Wanda, Parson LINKUP!


That might be difficult to employ effectively without violating the treaty, but Marie's presence presents an opportunity, given that she isn't a GK unit, and that, being incapacitated, presumably Maggie is trivially easy to capture. Suppose Marie "captures" Maggie, enters CC's portal with both of them being barbarian units, and then uses the healing scroll, releasing Maggie from capture and allying with GK, putting them in CC city without violating the letter of the cease-fire. After all, Marie knew it wasn't time for the scroll, yet.

Marie's presance would still be in violation of the treaty, even if she isn't a unit of Gobwin Knob she is still an agent of Gobwin Knob. The treaty specifically forbids using third parties for the purpose of engagement between Charlsecom and Gobwin Knob.
Nikitian wrote:
Long-time lurker here, arising to answer one important question. (I Predict it has already been mentioned sometime somewhere back before, but oh well.)

Re: Charlie doesn't employ Chief Warlord, nor even any units other than Archons or golems.
I believe the answer lies in, to quote Lord Crush: "philosophical exploration of the role of Duty in non-command units". As in, every single thinking unit (combat or not!) can potentially turn against the Ruler if he believes that serves the side; and in the case of a Chief Warlord, it is well-known that in specific cases he has authority to override the Ruler. A Chief Warlord could replace Charlie on his throne for a moment. (Figuratively, of course, unless said Warlord was also a designated heir.) That is unacceptable.

Given that Charlie is in the business of eliminating any possibilities of defeat, and a tiny opening is supposedly all that Fate needs to kill him, I can easily see him deciding never ever to employ anyone susceptible to that. Archons? Brainwashed easily,
thanks to Natural Thinkamancy (this might serve as indirect evidence they are the only units with Natural Thinkamancy abilities (non-basic) - or that of all units with Natural Thinkamancy they are the most vulnerable to mind domination). Golems? Mindless. The only question comes to using contracted casters, but I guess if they are not part of the side (indirect evidence of possibility of 'civil war' chain reaction? would fit with the "tiny chance" theme, as well as "individual chambers" order for escorting Archons - I presume they are all to be disbanded or eliminated otherwise - and stopping Lilith the moment she tried to disclose his secrets (verbally! to those in the ear-shot! each of whom could also theoretically be detained later) ) it doesn't matter, as long as they are kept well-away from the side itself.

An interesting point that this speculation brought up for me is that Charlie should've made more use of uncroaked. There is a number of reasons why that wouldn't work - Croakamancy isn't one of Archon specials, meaning that a caster would be needed; it might be bad for PR, and Charlie's reputation is worth money to him (and money... etc.); they are not sustainable in the long run; and so on. But the fact that they are mindless (and, bonus points, 'cheap to feed'; an all-time classic! :P ) makes me think he'd find them worth employing. Perhaps now especially, since he has just investigated (with debatable success) how decrypted bodies work, and could create semi-decrypted? Don't decay over time, but still devoid of mind. Maybe even retain abilities like casting.

And with that, I vanish back into shadows! Hopefully, the speculation above was of some use.

Where did you, furthermore anyone, get the idea that the Archons were brainwashed? Can you lot not fathom that it is possible to love someone who has a +8 bonus to attracting flying chicks, especially if one is a flying chick?
Slayorious wrote:
Infidel wrote:
... but it would also give him direct experience of how magic works in erfworld. Which should be much more useful than any explanations.


Hasn't it been shown that the casters don't remember much about their expanded understanding of magic when they're linked once they've stopped being linked?


Hrm, I usually don't reply to old threads, meaning threads older than the current comic. But just to be clear, it has been shown that casters don't remember anything that required the linkup, but they do come out with insights that don't require a linkup. Such as when Maggie came out and told Parson that she suspected that the link Wanda has with the Decrypted can be cut.
Anomynous 167 wrote:

Where did you, furthermore anyone, get the idea that the Archons were brainwashed? Can you lot not fathom that it is possible to love someone who has a +8 bonus to attracting flying chicks, especially if one is a flying chick?


Yeah, and upon decryption the bonus suddenly moves from the paraplegic sociopath to the fatalist psycho? So much so that the paraplegic sociopath explicitely goes looking to find how and where is the connection severed?
It's long been my thought that Charlie changed his fate to "Cannot be croaked by anything on Erf." And Fate responded by going "Ok, then Judy Gale."

Judy said she was supposed to croak Charlie, but never revealed who said that. Maybe it was Fate.

It would explain why Charlie wants to capture Parson. Fate doesn't seem to let those it has predictions about die until they have completed what they are predicted to do. But Judy was able to leave Erf with the Shoes. So Charlie figures he can banish Parson and bide his time until the next summoned warlord shows up.

He could be trying to eternally stave off the inevitable.