Book 2 - Page 24

Book 2 - Page 24
Comic - Book 2  Page 24
Recent posts... (See full thread)
I don't know if anyone has posted this (red only three pages of discussion), but Jillian is probably trying to pull something great out of this.

Some have pointed out the (obvious) fact that she is trying to support Jetstone while preserving Ansom and Wanda, two units which could be useful to her in the long run. Well, what if it doesn't need to wait long?

If the allied forces DO beat Ansom's column, they'll be able to capture Wanda, Ansom and Jack to a side, presumably Faq. Well, some of you may say Wanda could escape from air since Faq and Jetstone don't have a flying force strong enough to stop her. I can respect that line of thought, but last text update hinted Charlie's Archons might get involved in this mix, I don't know at what cost.
splintermute wrote:
Those 30 archons weren't allied with the RCC at the time


Yeah, but they were renegotiating the contract. He only priced himself out of their budget AFTER getting that prediction. And again, GK had no flying units or air defenses. I think Jillian and her Scooty Puff Jr. could've taken the tower at that point, if RCC hadn't sent her and almost all their fliers after GK's.

splintermute wrote:
(and would have worked against Jetstone if they hadn't had particularly observant warlords).


That's pretty much my point. Any army besides CharlesComm's has warlords and casters, and these are things that would make an archer stack more than just an archer stack.

Faenir wrote:
Some have pointed out the (obvious) fact that she is trying to support Jetstone while preserving Ansom and Wanda, two units which could be useful to her in the long run. Well, what if it doesn't need to wait long?


I imagine Stanley could disband her if she was in danger of being captured, since he's still alive and actively monitoring the situation. The question is, would he?

Yeah.
Being disbanded = getting croaked?

Then Wanda could just turn rather than getting disbanded?

Because if she can and things turn out to go just the way I mentioned last post, that would be a win for all of them - Faq, Jetstone, Transylvito, Charlie - while maintaning Ansom, Wanda and Jack. Seems like the way to go and the most smart choice to take if you are Jillian. Bet that would make readers respect her a lot more, too.
Faenir wrote:
Then Wanda could just turn rather than getting disbanded?


She had that option. She said boop that. It's not her turn anymore.
gazes_also wrote:
That is a bizarre parsing of that exchange.

Jillian asks "How's YOUR juice?" wanting to know how much Vanna had left for further action.
To interpret the reply as "Low.".. as a specific reply to the question regarding Vanna, and then
"...That spell cost two turns worth, basically" as meaning the juice used in general, is nonsensical.

That both sentences in the reply relate to the question asked is the only way to interpret it in the English I know.
Not so bizarre, if you're not ignoring the fact that things changed for Vanna. While casting Kingworld, she was linked with Charlie. After casting it, during her conversation with Jillian, she was not. Her description of the juice used and her own juice remaining spans those two states, and so it's not at all odd for her to be speaking from both perspectives.
gazes_also wrote:
How would Vanna know how much juice Charlie used, relative to how much he has available anyway?
Because she was in an intimate link with Charlie, where personalities merge and you become your function?
gazes_also wrote:
Vanna answered for herself and for herself alone - and if that means that a turnamancer can store juice from turn to turn, so be it.
No. Vanna answered for herself and Charlie when stating the juice used. They were linked at that time. And then for herself, when stating how much juice she had left.

Reclaimer wrote:
Without Warlords, they have no multipliers.
You're forgetting that Archons can do just about anything. Some of them have Leadership, and thus give the same bonus as having Warlords. It's sweet to be on the side with everything, isn't it?
Reclaimer wrote:
As flying units, they're weak against archers.
No. As fliers, they are able to be attacked by archers. That is a "weakness" every other unit has as well. It's just that Archons aren't able to be attacked by non-fliers (unless the Archons initiate the combat). This is a strength, not a weakness.
Reclaimer wrote:
Stack multipliers, mop them up.
LOL! It's the Archons who stack up the multipliers, without even needing unit diversity. They have Leadership, Foolamancy, Dance-Fighting, Dollamancy, Shockmancy, Thinkamancy, flight, and that's just what we have seen or been told by the Archons themselves.
Reclaimer wrote:
They're neat support units but without any sort of main force for them to screen themselves with they're easy meat for most mixed armies.
This is pure speculation, and flies in the face of Charlie's force structure. And as I have detailed above, the Archons are by themselves a "mixed force", bringing their own force multipliers to the table. The Archons are Charlie's sole unit with which to advance his agenda. The rest appear to be purely defensive in nature, and stay put to guard his city. If they required other units to be effective, it would be very hard to rent them out as mercenaries. "Hey, I've got these great Archons to rent to you. But, um, they kinda suck by themselves. You'll have to send enough force with them to make sure they get the job done." That wouldn't exactly inspire confidence in the buyer, would it? No, it would not. Instead it's like this: ""Hey, I've got these great Archons to rent to you. Rent enough of them and they just keep racking up the force multipliers, with Leadership, Dance Fighting, etc, etc. They are completely capable of getting the job done, whatever that job might be."

And if you're still doubtful, remember that Charlie was going to take out the GK garrison, which had Parson, three casters, a mixed force structure of units, and plenty of multipliers of its own, with a force comprised of, you guessed it, just Archons.
Oberon wrote:
remember that Charlie was going to take out the GK garrison, which had Parson, three casters, a mixed force structure of units, and plenty of multipliers of its own, with a force comprised of, you guessed it, just Archons.


No, he was never "going to"; he asked if he could. And I'm pretty sure the calculator would've factored in that the walls were about to be gleefully beaten down anyways by a coalition of the willing. You probably shouldn't judge their power level based on whether thirty of them could defeat a level 2 warlord leading a stack of three casters who'd just spent an entire turn casting a pretty amazing amount of spells.

They're not stand-alone casters like you seem to be implying, even if they do have a few tricks between them. And they are pretty easy to kill. I haven't seen you address the fact that an arrow or two seems to pretty much dissolve them. They might not be "weak" against archers, but they sure ain't immune to them. And an army of archers would be cheaper to build and buff than an army of flying units. If all you're fighting is fliers, you're not going to be popping a bunch of pikers.
I haven't read all of the posts about theories for why the Kingsworld spell "basically cost two turns" worth of juice, but Vanna still has a little bit of juice left. I don't know if anyone has proposed this idea yet, but here it goes.

I think that the spell, which is so difficult to cast you need to be linked to a Thinkamancer (presumably Charlie and the Arken Dish) to do it, would cost all of your juice for that turn and the juice for your next one. Because you're basically depriving your enemy of a turn, and jumping yourself ahead a turn. It makes me think about the update when Parson and Sizemore were talking about their perceptions of time. It seems balanced that to get a jump on your turn, it would cost you juice that you would be gaining on that turn (because if you could do it again that would be broken). Now about Vanna still having juice.

This is a completely made up idea and I have no way of supporting it, except I think it sounds good. From what we've seen of a Turnamancer's abilities, they increase productivity of cities. A city managed by a Turnamancer has a greater output than it normally would (Charlie getting 3 Archons every two turns instead of 1 a turn, increased production of FAQ described in one of the text updates). So my theory is that part of a Turnamancer's natural ability is that they are more efficient at gaining juice when their turn starts. Basically what I'm thinking is that Turnamancer's start with more than 100% of their daily amount of juice, because they are Turnamancers. So the Thinkamancer that made the link that cast the spell would start the turn with no juice, but the Turnamancer gets to start with a little bit of juice.

Anyway, that's my theory.
Reclaimer wrote:
Oberon wrote:
remember that Charlie was going to take out the GK garrison, which had Parson, three casters, a mixed force structure of units, and plenty of multipliers of its own, with a force comprised of, you guessed it, just Archons.


No, he was never "going to" [take the GK garrison]; he asked if he could.
You have an interesting way of looking at things. If your car is for sale and a guy asks if he can buy your car for $1,000, and you say no, and then he asks how much you'll sell it for and you say $5,000, and he goes and get $5,000 and comes back, he IS going to buy your car. There is no mistaking the intent.

Charlie asked if he could take the garrison with the Archons he had at hand. He could not. Then he asked how many Archons it would take, and then he brought that many Archons to GK and issued an ultimatum. He was going to take the garrison. The reason he did not is that Parson convinced him of two things: That it might be interesting to see Parson at work, since Parson had provided Charlie with a lie-proof estimate that showed that Parson had far better odds than Charlie had calculated himself, and that Charlie might be able to take the Arkenpliers from Parson since Parson claimed that he was going to be taking them from Ansom. That, and there was a 2/3 chance that the RCC and GK forces would do a bit of "let's you and him fight" for Charlie, which would make it that less expensive in lost Archons for Charlie to sack the garrison the next turn.

That is it. If not for that parley, TBFGK would have ended with Charlie sacking the city for whatever shmuckers he could get out of it before flying off with Parson, the bracer, and hopefully the Arkenpliers, before the RCC took GK on their own turn.
Oberon wrote:
You have an interesting way of looking at things.


I'll take a compliment where I can get it.

Your comparison with a car sale's flawed because the guy didn't come back with five grand, he came back with a shotgun. I still think he only cocked it to watch Parson crap himself, and the fact that he didn't impressed the hell out of him. He was trying pretty hard to get Parson on his side, and if he'd sacked GK it would've gone against his own mission statement even if he would've wound up with a couple neat toys.

Rattling a saber makes noise, drawing it does not.
I think the juice issue is simple. Maggie as a thinkamancer is forced to use all of or most of her juice every turn for a variety of things as the demand to use her abilities is massive.
Vanna is a turnamancer she uses a small amount of her juice normally and can store most of it for later uses. Wanda is primarily a combat caster who also "summons" troops the same as Sizemore. They typically don't use thier juice at all except in combat situations. Unless Sizemore is being forced to summon golems outside of combat.