Book 2 - Page 15

Book 2 - Page 15
Comic - Book 2 - Page 15
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Lord Kasavin wrote:

"Chess masters" probably aren't going to be the best Erf strategists. Chess is essentially the same game everytime. The two sides have an enormous degree of symmetry. Part of being a master is outright memorizing a script of opening moves, something every grandmaster and chess program do to maximize odds. The end game is then determined by considering future moves and as many possibilities as possible. That actually describes Ansom very well. And there is a reason he was considered one of Erfworld's finest strategic minds, many of these skills translate into good Erfworld strategy. Ansom is a planner, and likes his plan to encompass as many possibilities as possible. And yes, part of that is covering vulnerabilities, like a capital strike.

However, Erfworld is not chess. The number of variables makes chess look like tic-tac-toe. Battles are not only difficult to predict, but there's always the possibility of a factor coming in out of left field. Why did Ansom loose the Battle for Gobwin Knob? Because he failed to account for Parson, but he had no way TO account for Parson. When Parson hinted at a strong wall defense, Ansom believed it and modified his plans to what his enemy was doing. Had he followed strict convention like Weibnar wanted, he'd have won.

"chess master" is not a term meant to be taken so literally
The term "Chess master" is one that remains relevant to whatever game is being played.
It refers to someone who knows all the strategies, knows the possibilities, is great at forward planning, And knows how to plan several steps ahead of any opponent; all within that game. So even if you consider Erfworld to be more complicated, the term remains relevant as the "chess master" would in fact be an "erfworld master"...
Adama wrote:

As for whether the city was classified as "captured," Sizemore said that it had. Furthermore, Sizemore explicitly tied whether it was "the end of our side" to the fall of the capital, not to the death of Saline IV. That again implies that you need to lose both your leader and your capital for a side to fall.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F079.jpg


You know, I had missed that passage. Since Slately croaking and the capital falling happened simultaneously. But look at exactly what Sizemore says in that panel:

"It wasn't the end of our side."

I interpret that to be more consistent with the idea that they didn't turn into Barbarians, Gobwin Knob just lost its capital and persisted, still as GK.
I don't know if anyone has talked about this yet, but I was just wondering about Trem's sticky situation. He's still trapped in the nasty dwagon bubble, but why? Are none of his soldiers equipped to help free him? Is it something that will only go away once it becomes Jetstone's turn?

Don't really have any answers, except that if Trem could free himself he probably would have by now.
It's my guess that it lasts a turn. Trem could be stuck until tomorrow.
That sounds reasonable. Barring any kind of removal, if they have the tools at hand to accomplish it.
Angband wrote:
Adama wrote:

As for whether the city was classified as "captured," Sizemore said that it had. Furthermore, Sizemore explicitly tied whether it was "the end of our side" to the fall of the capital, not to the death of Saline IV. That again implies that you need to lose both your leader and your capital for a side to fall.

http://www.erfworld.com/book-1-archive/?px=%2F079.jpg


You know, I had missed that passage. Since Slately croaking and the capital falling happened simultaneously. But look at exactly what Sizemore says in that panel:

"It wasn't the end of our side."

I interpret that to be more consistent with the idea that they didn't turn into Barbarians, Gobwin Knob just lost its capital and persisted, still as GK.


This could actually lead back to the idea of what happens when a capitol falls but the side still has other cities...
It could be that if the capitol falls, but the heir is still around and has other cities that they do not revert to barbarianism...
Jillian may have lost her capitol and her cities in one fell swoop, and thus how she became a barbarian in one turn

But then again, it could just be a choice of words... For instance, Jillian reverted to barbarianism, but was that still considered the end of Faq?... How does one interpret "the end of a side"...
In this sense, Stanely and Sizemore could have indeed turned to barbarians, but since they still lived and stanely could continue the side once he took back the city, Sizemore felt that the side never truly ended. it becomes a matter of personal interpretation. Some say that when a capitol falls the side ends and that any side that comes from that fallen capitol should be treated as a "new side" where as Sizemore thinks it's more the case that as long as the rulership lives, the side still lives, no matter what form it takes... So while Ansom saw Stanely taking Faq's capitol as Stanley starting a new side, Sizemore would see it as GK's side continuing... one ties the side to it's capitol, where as Sizemore ties it to the rulership
Best written update ever.
Lord Kasavin wrote:

However, Erfworld is not chess. The number of variables makes chess look like tic-tac-toe. Battles are not only difficult to predict, but there's always the possibility of a factor coming in out of left field. Why did Ansom loose the Battle for Gobwin Knob? Because he failed to account for Parson, but he had no way TO account for Parson. When Parson hinted at a strong wall defense, Ansom believed it and modified his plans to what his enemy was doing. Had he followed strict convention like Weibnar wanted, he'd have won.


You take the term "Chess Master" literally, but chess strategy is more about logic and problem-solving. Move and counter-move. Your enemy makes Move X, you need to figure out the best response : Move Y. Its outside-the-box potential may not be comparable to some other games / simulations, but it can teach you a lot about discerning the correct response as opposed to blindly beating the same drum again and again : "This turn, we smash them! Next turn... we smash them!" etc.

Stanley could learn a lot from playing chess.
asparagus wrote:
BLANDCorporatio wrote:
Well, IF Wanda couldn't start a side on her own (and decrypted Ansom couldn't have helped, probably he had lost heir status) at the end of Book 1, that would certainly make sense. (If she could have started her own side she could have gone looking for Jillian at her leisure anyway).

So that's a satisfying answer.


No. It is not a satisfying answer. I think people are right that Wanda shows no inclination to start her own side. However I think she will offer Jillian the following deal. "Faq breaks alliance with the RCC and helps her sack Spacerock, then they fly back to Gobwin Knob where she will be escorted to meet Stanley as a conquering hero. At that point she is free to croak Stanley and absorb Gobwin Knob, Unaroyal and Jetstone into a new Faqing Empire and Wanda will make sure it works and seize the hammer. Both then get what they ultimately want and will go onto side by side to conquer the whole of erfworld." We also know that Wanda is not subject to natural thinkamancy loyalty spells. Jillian will not buy this but will take two full colour updates to come to a decision and Charlie will probably play a decisive role in her decision.


So I got this half right! It's Jillian who makes the offer.
Good call!