Epilogue 18 - A Poem About a King

Epilogue 18 - A Poem About a King

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ftl wrote:
They don't need more enemies. Carpool and Metroland are enough. FAQ is one of the few allies they have with a strong army (which they mostly funded!) - it would be suicidal to antagonize Jillian as well!
What you're describing is actually a great reason why Transylvito should want to ally with GK against Faq. Since Transylvito is so short on powerful allies, a move that exchanges one of their allies for a more powerful ally has got to be seriously tempting. You make it sound like betraying Faq would increase the number of Transylvito's enemies, but it doesn't count as having more enemies if they turn just as many enemies into allies in the process.

Even so, I doubt it would ever happen. Transylvito has been fighting against Stanley far too long to stop now.
Arky wrote:
Lipkin wrote:
Best plan would be for Caesar as CW of TV to send a force out into the field to meet with Faq on it's raids. When the two forces meet, Caesar offs Don, becoming Ruler. He promotes the highest level warlord in the force to Chief, breaks alliance, and surprise attacks Faq.


This seems like a good plan.

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If that is the way things went down, I expect it would be because GK would offer Caesar their support in exchange for the return of Ansom. During the fight, Ansom would probably end up having a chance to escape before being told that this was a rescue mission. Instead of escaping, he would see Jillian about to be croaked, and save her, turning Barbarian in the progress. He'll still believe in Toolism as the titanic mandate, but he'll say damn it all in favor of Jillian.


Why would Jillian even consider negotiating to give Ansom over to Transylvito? Also, for this to work it has to be Don King calling the meeting and he's really not going to say "bring Ansom". Going to all that trouble just for a shot at getting Ansom back is also thinking too small. If you're going to get one shot at ambushing FAQ-Queen Jillian, you aim to capture Jillian (and then Ansom being in her dungeon is no longer a problem). I can see them doing this. Especially since Caesar dislikes Jillian and would be more into this plan than trying to free Ansom.

You misunderstand. GK arranges to support Caesar's coup, on the terms that upon breaking alliance, Caesar retrieves Ansom and returns him. There was never going to be negotiating with Jillian. At the moment, Jillian is still in the field attacking targets of opportunity on her way back to Faq. My thought was that Caesar and his force could join her before she made it back home with her prisoner. But since Caesar is drunk at TV's capital, this seems rather unlikely.

But more to the point, Caesar can order the troops about as he pleases without Don's say so. This is why Don's position is so perilous. Caesar's orders are supreme save for a direct order from Don contradicting them. Caesar can make sure that Don is alone when Caesar makes his moves, and can also place his forces in the best position possible for when they break alliance.

Also, capturing Jillian is dumb. Croaking her ends the side. With no side, Faq turns neutral. It's unlikely that Ansom would be able to capture the city on his own, but he'd count as a hostile unit, so the city wouldn't freeze. He'd be able to flee, and contact Maggie for a pick-up.
The problem with this plan being of course that GK's chief caster is in love with the queen of Faq, and she has the ear of Stanley. So any attempt by Caeser to claim Faq's cities by croaking Jillian like he wants would only antagonize the side he wants to ally with. He is sort of in a position where he is likely going to shoot himself in the foot and end up with no allies at all.
As far as we can tell, Transylvito is the oldest continuous side besides Charlie. I have a feeling they're gonna survive somehow. Maybe it's the location/design of their capital, their smart financing, or the composition of their forces/unit types, but something about the side has let them last though a lot of yellow dwagon amunnition hitting the fan :p
Lilwik wrote:
ftl wrote:
They don't need more enemies. Carpool and Metroland are enough. FAQ is one of the few allies they have with a strong army (which they mostly funded!) - it would be suicidal to antagonize Jillian as well!
What you're describing is actually a great reason why Transylvito should want to ally with GK against Faq. Since Transylvito is so short on powerful allies, a move that exchanges one of their allies for a more powerful ally has got to be seriously tempting. You make it sound like betraying Faq would increase the number of Transylvito's enemies, but it doesn't count as having more enemies if they turn just as many enemies into allies in the process.



But does GK have the sort of leverage to make Transylvito do that? Betray a nearby, powerful ally with an airforce?

GK and Transylvito would both benefit from a non-aggression pact - GK wants to focus on fighting Charlie, Transylvito wants to focus on fighting Metroland and Carpool.

But GK doesn't really have the forces to spare to promise large armies to Transylvito to help them fight. So they don't have much of a carrot to entice Transylvito to betray FAQ. They could try to use a stick - betray FAQ or we crush you - but that would sound hollow. For one, as Caesar said, you can't draw blood from a stone - he can very legitimately respond with "no, if we betray our only powerful ally we're screwed, if you want to destroy us you'll have to do it with your own hand rather than making us self-destruct." And, of course, GK doesn't *actually* want to spend time and money on a campaign to destroy Transylvito. So if they threatened that, it would be a bluff. And Transylvito would see that, thinking "if they could win a war against us, they could win a war against FAQ, and wouldn't need us to do their dirty work."

From the point of view of TV, why would they accept an offer to betray an ally to get an ally... when they could just get GK as an ally without losing a current one? Caesar doesn't want to fight GK, GK doesn't want to fight TV, it's reasonable for both just agree to a non-aggression pact with no further conditions.

Parson as a good negotiator might extract other concessions and drive a hard bargain. But I think that would be a diplomatic win for GK at Transylvito's expense, and TV should try to avoid that.
They could come closer than that. GK could send them some $. Not saying it'll happen, but beyond a simple nonaggression pact would make sense for both sides.
drachefly wrote:
They could come closer than that. GK could send them some $. Not saying it'll happen, but beyond a simple nonaggression pact would make sense for both sides.

Exchanging cash especially makes sense if TV (Ben) can help GK evacuate its treasury from Spacerock via gemification. But I don't see why GK would be motivated to strain the alliance by aggressing against Faq.
There isn't much reason for fighting between GK and Faq though either. Jillian already tried to betray the coalition once (and Wanda knows this), and doesn't seem to have a clear motivation anymore for hating Stanley (Wanda isn't his mind slave), so other than the Ansom issue and her smashing towns and decrypted along the border (mostly to be bitchy and spiteful to Wanda) there isn't any reason why joining both TV and Faq would cause a strained relation between the three. It's JS (because of Charlie) and Caeser that have a problem.
Shai_hulud wrote:
Jillian already tried to betray the coalition once (and Wanda knows this), and doesn't seem to have a clear motivation anymore for hating Stanley (Wanda isn't his mind slave)
Are you saying that Jillian knows it was Wanda and not Stanley who killed Banhammer and destroyed Faq? Or are you suggesting that Jillian should be told as part of a cease-fire negotiation?
I suppose it depends on what she thinks about what Jack told her about Marie's prediction.

Also, when I said she doesn't have a reason to fight Stanley, I meant logical reasons. She's like some kind of fantasy Log Cabin Republican.