Prologue - 001

Prologue - 001

Turns since TBfGK: 2

CharlsNChrg: And none of them really have a clue what you did.

LordHamster: Do you?

CharlsNChrg: Well, I imagine it must have been a three-caster link.

CharlsNChrg: Croakamancer applied motion/matter principles through the Dirtamancer, but to animate terrain instead of bodies.

CharlsNChrg: Correct?

LordHamster: Something like that.

LordHamster: So are you clueing them in?

CharlsNChrg: Not so far, I haven't.

LordHamster: Why not?

CharlsNChrg: There's an interesting principle at work, here.

CharlsNChrg: If I tell them what happened, freely, then they won't believe it.

CharlsNChrg: But if I charge them what the information is worth, then they'll buy it.

LordHamster: In both senses.

CharlsNChrg: Indeed. :)

LordHamster: Okay, so you're selling them the intelligence.

CharlsNChrg: Actually, I kind of like being the only one who does know what happened there.

CharlsNChrg: So what I am doing is offering the information at about twice what anyone is willing to pay for it.

LordHamster: Gotta make back your losses somehow.

LordHamster: But you're telling me this for free.

CharlsNChrg: Yes.

LordHamster: Why?

CharlsNChrg: Maybe I don't want you to believe it. :)

 

image

Guest art by C. Thayer Donnelly

Recent posts... (See full thread)
Unclever title wrote:

Thinkamancy (at least some) spells can be broken and considering the amount of thinkamancy Charlie does on a regular basis then if he does get beaten by another thinkamancer (highly unlikely but I'd say possible) then I would wager purely hypothetical money then he would die due to the serious mental strains involved, maybe involving some kind of thinkamancy explosion or something. In fact using the Arkendish as he does while granting him unparalleled ability may put a severe mental strain on Charlie, this might explain his "strangeness" to some extent, prolonged use may drive him insane.

True, but lets not forget that as Maggie explained earlier. Master class thinkamancers can easily cast spells so that they take little to nothing on broken thinkamancy spells and that the cord instead snaps in the direction of the target not the caster. So, sure you broke free but you're either dead or a vegetable for awhile so I dont have to worry about you ruining current plans.

Or were you basically saying that if they're good enough to break his thinkamancy with thier own, then they're probably good enough to rebound the directed strain back to Charlie?
Lothmar wrote:
Or were you basically saying that if they're good enough to break his thinkamancy with thier own, then they're probably good enough to rebound the directed strain back to Charlie?


Something like that, but I was thinking that under a thinkamancy battle of such epic proportions there would likely be irreparable damage to both parties simply by the magnitude of the sheer power involved.

But it is an unlikely situation both by Charlie's mastery and that thinkamancers (so far) don't seem like the type to fight straightforward battles. But I suppose one might be ordered to do so.
Unclever title wrote:
How can we know it has no hardcoded limit? The Arkenhammer is limited by it's resources, needs Dwagons to tame, needs walnuts/birds to transform into birds/walnuts, granted I have no idea about the "van de graf" spell (if it is a spell as it appears to be). The Arkenpliers are limited due to the inherent limitations of Croakamancy no corpses means no decrypted.

As such the Arkendish which as Maggie said, "affords [Charlie] a command of thinkamancy that [Maggie] cannot match," is no doubt limited by the inherent limitations of thinkamancy. A known limitation is that it cannot change a Unit's nature, in order to command a unit it must already have a predisposition for acting that kind of way. Distance is probably not a limitation for Charlie at least, it would be pretty impractical for communication purposes and Maggie was able to establish pretty good communication with Ansom but I don't know how many hexes away that was. If range is a limitation for thinkamancy normally this may in fact be the single greatest potential advantage of the Arkendish.

Thinkamancy (at least some) spells can be broken and considering the amount of thinkamancy Charlie does on a regular basis then if he does get beaten by another thinkamancer (highly unlikely but I'd say possible) then I would wager purely hypothetical money then he would die due to the serious mental strains involved, maybe involving some kind of thinkamancy explosion or something. In fact using the Arkendish as he does while granting him unparalleled ability may put a severe mental strain on Charlie, this might explain his "strangeness" to some extent, prolonged use may drive him insane.

There are other limitations as well. The Arkendish gives Charlie a powerful command over information and he knows how to manipulate it but this is limited by the intel of other sides dealing with Charlie, if they have enough info they can see where he's right or wrong.


As we've seen, Dwagons can be popped, and presumably tamed, with no mention as to upkeep. Decrypted needs dead or possibly Uncroaked, and has no upkeep. Sizemore's ArkenShovel, if you'll forgive the stretch, seems to create them from boop, with no mention of upkeep. Why should we expect any extraneous limitations on the Archons, if indeed they are popped/tamed (no jokes, please)/whatever by the ArkenDish? Maybe a certain side has his kidnapped heir/King/Royal/way home as ransom, and he needs that much money to pay them off. Maybe he's just trying for a money Achievement. Maybe he's just a greedy Magnificent Bastard. At this point, his desire for money is a red herring unless we find out more.

We might as well speculate that Decrypted "steal" upkeep from the Side that they're originally on, unless it's your own side maybe, and I have about as much evidence as you do. The original Charlie cultivates an aura of mystery to the point that there's not even a wikipedia article on him. We never see the original's nor the Erfworld's version's face. Unless and until we find out more, any speculation as to the ArkenDish's requirements is fruitless. I don't think we'll EVER find out.

As for a hard-coded limit, we've seen dozens of dwagons so far, almost as many Archons, and "an army's" worth of Decrypted. We have seen no evidence for a "Minion Cap," if you'll forgive the Guild Wars reference. Unless you can hover your mouse over portions of Klog 2 and get a helpful popup box, you have very little to support your theory, not that all that many rules apply when it comes to the ArkenTools ANYWAY.

You know what? Post your theory on the wiki, and see how fast it takes to be tagged Canon or Epileptic Tree. I'm done.
Actually I like the idea that they're not really without upkeep they just leech it from the previous side, that just seems overly hilarious. It would be even funnier if the unit still counted in thier ques but they couldnt control/disband it etc so if there was a troop cap the decrypted troop would count against it but not GK's. XD
Lothmar wrote:
Actually I like the idea that they're not really without upkeep they just leech it from the previous side, that just seems overly hilarious. It would be even funnier if the unit still counted in thier ques but they couldnt control/disband it etc so if there was a troop cap the decrypted troop would count against it but not GK's. XD


That would have an interesting side effect, if you destroy a side, then all decrypted from that side de-pop.
raphfrk wrote:
Lothmar wrote:
Actually I like the idea that they're not really without upkeep they just leech it from the previous side, that just seems overly hilarious. It would be even funnier if the unit still counted in thier ques but they couldnt control/disband it etc so if there was a troop cap the decrypted troop would count against it but not GK's. XD


That would have an interesting side effect, if you destroy a side, then all decrypted from that side de-pop.


Even awesomer! It still registers the side active just with a permanent alliance to your side... "You will be assimilated."
BarGamer wrote:
As we've seen, Dwagons can be popped, and presumably tamed, with no mention as to upkeep. Decrypted needs dead or possibly Uncroaked, and has no upkeep. Sizemore's ArkenShovel, if you'll forgive the stretch, seems to create them from boop, with no mention of upkeep. Why should we expect any extraneous limitations on the Archons, if indeed they are popped/tamed (no jokes, please)/whatever by the ArkenDish? Maybe a certain side has his kidnapped heir/King/Royal/way home as ransom, and he needs that much money to pay them off. Maybe he's just trying for a money Achievement. Maybe he's just a greedy Magnificent Bastard. At this point, his desire for money is a red herring unless we find out more.

We might as well speculate that Decrypted "steal" upkeep from the Side that they're originally on, unless it's your own side maybe, and I have about as much evidence as you do. The original Charlie cultivates an aura of mystery to the point that there's not even a wikipedia article on him. We never see the original's nor the Erfworld's version's face. Unless and until we find out more, any speculation as to the ArkenDish's requirements is fruitless. I don't think we'll EVER find out.

As for a hard-coded limit, we've seen dozens of dwagons so far, almost as many Archons, and "an army's" worth of Decrypted. We have seen no evidence for a "Minion Cap," if you'll forgive the Guild Wars reference. Unless you can hover your mouse over portions of Klog 2 and get a helpful popup box, you have very little to support your theory, not that all that many rules apply when it comes to the ArkenTools ANYWAY.

You know what? Post your theory on the wiki, and see how fast it takes to be tagged Canon or Epileptic Tree. I'm done.


I think I may have used the word hardcoded incorrectly or something, I only meant to say that like the other Arkentools the Arkendish is likely limited by the way in which it works (granted I was assuming it works in ways related to thinkamancy). Of course Dwagons can be popped, but if you don't have one at the moment it can't be tamed because it's not there, that's all that I meant by the "needs Dwagons to tame" same as with the walnuts and that you can't decrypt what's not dead. All of these limitations can be surpassed by strategy but they can also be exploited by strategy (granted it might be very difficult). So they are still limitations. This is how I think the Arkentools are balanced with respect to each other, and how they do not guarantee victory.

I'm fully ready (and willing) to accept that if Stanley came a across a hex with 300 wild Dwagons in it that he could tame them all with a single raise of the hammer, it's just that he most likely can't pop 300 Dwagons in a single turn despite the fact that he may badly need to. If anything we've seen that a dwagon takes somewhere comparable to about a week's worth of turns because we've only seen one dwagon popped in the entire timespan of the Battle for Gobwin Knob.

The rest of your post I can only assume was not in response to mine, as I never said anything about Archons.
BarGamer wrote:

You know what? Post your theory on the wiki, and see how fast it takes to be tagged Canon or Epileptic Tree. I'm done.


:shock: ... really?
holy boop, guys. i say we dial down the passions here. i mean.. it's just an argument, no?

Unclever title wrote:
I think I may have used the word hardcoded incorrectly or something, I only meant to say that like the other Arkentools the Arkendish is likely limited by the way in which it works (granted I was assuming it works in ways related to thinkamancy). Of course Dwagons can be popped, but if you don't have one at the moment it can't be tamed because it's not there, that's all that I meant by the "needs Dwagons to tame" same as with the walnuts and that you can't decrypt what's not dead. All of these limitations can be surpassed by strategy but they can also be exploited by strategy (granted it might be very difficult). So they are still limitations. This is how I think the Arkentools are balanced with respect to each other, and how they do not guarantee victory.


yep. i'm with you on that one. i just went from there to money for the Arkendish because, apart from juice (which, remember, Arkenpliers use none of in Wanda's case), there are no known restrictions on Thinkamancy. So: Wanda's restriction for the 'decrypt' function of Arkenpliers = number of croaked units present. stanley's restriction for the 'tame dwagon' function of the arkenhammer = number of dwagons present (importantly.. i'm not talking about the 'pop dwagon' function ).. charlie's restriction on the 'bonus to Thinkamancy' function of the arkendish = ? Might be distance, it's true, but thinkagrams don't depend on distance. stuff like suggestion spells may.. so i dunno. it's all a wash, of course. i just liked the way the 'arkendish uses money' theory hung together. i seem to be alone in that, which is cool. but at the very least there seems to be some insight to be gained from the way in which the arkentools are similar yet different.

i dunno. maybe i'm treating this too much like literary analysis.. where when we don't know something, we're never going to know it, because the book doesn't continue to write itself as it's being analyzed. i like these kinds of theories because they're fun to construct (and deconstruct), not because they're 'true'. *shrug*..
Unclever title wrote:
The rest of your post I can only assume was not in response to mine, as I never said anything about Archons.

Partially you, partially vdragon. I lump Charlie, the ArkenDish, and the Archons all together as a Side. I apologize for my manner. I blame sleep deprivation, the start of another semester, as well as my own Barbarian temper.

I gotta say, I'm surprised by how much people like my other epileptic tree, "Decrypted 'steal' upkeep from their original side," but I freely acknowledge that it's probably not true, but would be a hilariously broken mechanic. Retake a city or two, Decrypt the lot, and not only do GK regain a city or two, Ansom and Company are being DRAINED by the city's formerly-defending army's-worth of units. AWESOME and WIN!
I'd just like to point out that we assume the decryption doesn't use Wanda's use or uses only a little bit of it. We don't really know for sure, though.